Intuitive Eating- Acceptance and Resolution Outside of Diet Culture w/ Linh Phan -29

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Linh Phan 0:00

A big difference between dieting and intuitive eating is that intuitive eating has self compassion. There are no rules, you know, we have these principles, there are 10 principles, and they're there to just gently guide you.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:15

Welcome to The Grit Show. Growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues. And I'm happy to be here with you as your guide for all of us growing together as seekers, and thrivers.

Shawna Rodrigues 0:34

especially as she prepare for: 2023

Linh Phan 1:21

Thank you so much for having me, Shawna.

Shawna Rodrigues 1:24

I'm excited for this conversation. I think that as like, we're starting being ready for the New Year, people are making resolutions, I think that it's kind of a good time to kind of have this perspective of looking at things a little bit differently. So how did you lead into this? I love your background, is in your family's restaurant. I love that. And that food is a love language for you. So how did you kind of get that connection to it and intuitive eating piece?

Linh Phan 1:46

Mm hmm. So I always wanted to do something around food. But knowing what it's like to run a restaurant, that was definitely not it. My parents still have a restaurant and they still work like 16 hour days, and it's just so tough. And I was just like, Nope, that is not for me. I do not want to work that hard. You know, like, there is that, like, I just can't see myself just not having a life at all. And then you know, I thought about being like maybe a restaurant critic, or like, just anything to do with food because I love food so much. But I couldn't figure it out. And then like, you know, I got into the corporate world, I was working in a bank for a number of years and before that, like a stock exchange, and so nothing to do with food whatsoever. So a few years ago, I quit my job at a bank and was just like, I need to figure out what my mission is. I need to figure out what my purpose in life is. It is not to create these spreadsheets every month. It is not the reporting to a boss who doesn't care, you know, like, it's not any of those things. It's like, I want to get out of bed and be excited about the work I do. And working at a bank was not it, surprisingly.

Shawna Rodrigues 1:49

I'm shocked. I mean, everyone I know, banks, numbers. Come on, come on.

Linh Phan 3:07

I know. Like, the whole automation of it. And like, the mindlessness, you just kind of go in and there's nothing that's fulfilling about it for me anyway. I know that some people like it, but it just wasn't for me. And also like I studied psychology. I had no studies in finance or economics, I had one year of economics, but like, there was like, I kind of just came to it in a very random way.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:32

Yeah.

Linh Phan 3:32

But I decided that, you know, instead of living life in a random way, I was going to do it with more intention. So I chose to quit my job and to figure out what that was.

Shawna Rodrigues 3:42

That's amazing.

Linh Phan 3:43

Yeah, so the year that I took off, I was just like, Okay, I'm gonna figure it out. Within like, the first month or so, I was completely lost. And I had like, almost like an anxiety attack. I remember sitting on the toilet and just feeling, that's where everything happens. I just remember this dark feeling just starting to come up from the pit of my stomach, and just coming up over my torso. And I was just like, oh, shoot, this is serious. I don't know what's happening. I feel that it's going to take over. And at the time, I was doing like a lot of meditation, a lot of yoga. And so I was just ,okay, I need to take myself to the mat and I need to figure out, I need to separate myself from this experience because this can overwhelm me. So I did a body scan and I was just like, Okay, I need help. I need help to figure out what this is, and I need help to figure out who I am. Because I quit my job and I didn't know who I was. My identity was being a banker, you know, I spend 40 plus hours in an office and all of a sudden I didn't have that. And it's just like, well, like,

Shawna Rodrigues 4:50

now what?

Linh Phan 4:50

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so, in this journey of mine, I chose to go see a therapist. I started seeing a couple of coaches to really kind of understand myself. And the work that I did with my therapist and my coaches, it was so profound and it completely changed my life, that I decided that I wanted to become one of them. I wanted to help other people figure out what they wanted for themselves and to create this life of intention. And the intuitive eating thing came by completely accidentally. I was listening to another podcast, very informative. So I was listening to this other podcast, and Evelyn AAA, who is one of the co-creators of the intuitive eating framework was being interviewed, and everything she was saying, I was just like, my mind was blown, because I was just like, Oh, my God, like, this is, this is how I approach eating. I didn't know that this was a thing, right?

Shawna Rodrigues 4:53

Yeah.

Linh Phan 4:55

And it's essentially the anti-diet, instead of listening to diets and listening, following, like, you know, plans and stepping on scales and doing all of these things that are external from us, it's coming back to the self. And I was just like, Oh my God, I want to do this. This is, this is what I want to do. Like, I want to help people, I want to help them find clarity. I want to help them create a life that is intentional. And it has to do with food.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:19

Oh, there we go. I love it. That's great. That's perfect. We talked about, I think we talked about skill stacking, we talked about it a few times in our podcast. So we have folks that come on and talk about finding their ways cause it is finding those things that, from the different stages of your life and places you've been like, what did you love about it? What did you get out of it? What was the thing that was important to you, and then you bring them all together. And it's so amazing when they coalesce and like point you in the right direction. So that's beautiful, I love it.

Linh Phan 6:49

Yes.

Shawna Rodrigues 6:50

That's so exciting. So tell us more, I want to learn more. Tell me more about this intuitive eating because the phrase sounds brilliant, and you get a sense of it. But I want to learn more about the details about it. Share more of the details.

Linh Phan 7:02

Yeah, so I mean, to give a little bit of history around it, you know, it was created by these two dietitians in the US in the 90s. And it was, it came from the fact that these two dietitians separately, they didn't know each other beforehand, they were, you know, helping people lose weight, because that is usually the "solution", and I put that in air quotes, right? Like, oh, you had health problems, lose weight, you know. And so they realized that they were helping their patients lose weight with these diet plans. But the problem was that, it wasn't sustainable. So these patients would often come back.

Shawna Rodrigues 8:13

Yeah.

Linh Phan 7:38

And so when they started looking into the data, when they started looking at research, because intuitive eating is actually based in research, there are studies about it, and they realized that, oh, diets aren't sustainable. Oftentimes, the studies don't go for longer than six months, a year, maybe two years, if you're lucky. But it's when people hit the five year mark after a diet plan, after they've had like surgery or whatever, that the weight starts coming back. Because our bodies are so freaking smart. Our bodies have been, have evolved so that we don't die, essentially, right? So,

Shawna Rodrigues 8:16

that's part of our bodies, our bodies. I think that makes good sense to me. And also things our bodies should do. Living should be one of them. So, because, that makes sense to me, Linh. I like the way you think.

Linh Phan 8:16

So with dieting, right? Like, the whole idea about dieting is that you're restricting yourself with the intention of losing weight. And the thing is, our bodies don't know the difference between intentional restriction and starvation. Right? And so when we go on a diet, and we're not giving our bodies, you know, the calories that it needs to actually function, our bodies go into survival mode, and they start slowing down our metabolism.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:01

Which is the last thing we want, right?

Linh Phan 9:03

Yeah, exactly. People who are on diets will often complain about like, Oh my God, all I think about is food. That's your body telling you that you're hungry.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:12

Yes.

Linh Phan 9:13

Right? And that's your body saying, Oh, I can't have something like, I want it.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:17

Yes, yes.

Linh Phan 9:18

Right? Anytime there's sort of any, sort of deprivation, we're going to focus on that thing. Like you're told that you shouldn't think about something or you can't have something. Our bodies just hold so much information. And, but we're taught, a lot of us are taught from a very young age not to trust our bodies.

Shawna Rodrigues 9:36

Yes, yes.

Linh Phan 9:37

Right?

Shawna Rodrigues 9:37

Yes, yes.

Linh Phan 9:38

If you think about it, like, babies are born. They recognize hunger. When they're hungry, they cry. When they're full, they stop eating. But then somewhere along the way, our parents start telling us what to do. Being in school, like the way the bell rings, and you know, it's lunchtime, like that's when you eat. And then as we get older, we've got magazines and TV shows that tell us, oh, we should be in a thin body because that's what beauty is. That's where our worth is. And so, we start hearing all of these things that are outside of us, instead of listening to ourselves. And so intuitive eating is listening to yourself. It's going back to your body signals, it's going back to, what do I need? What is going to nourish me? What is going to make me happy? What's going to make me full? And it's also recognizing that there are certain things that have been put in our pads along the way to actually prevent us from hearing ourselves, right? The food police, the food police that judges us, you know, for eating that piece of cake, or you know, the rebel that's like, Oh, you don't tell me what to do, I'm going to show you and then, or like the negotiator who's like, oh, well, if I'm gonna have that piece of cake, I'm gonna go for a run tomorrow, instead of actually allowing ourselves to actually be able to appreciate and eat the food without the shame and the guilt.

Shawna Rodrigues: 11:00

That's amazing. My first question that comes to my mind is, so my curiosity is around the additives, the things being added to our food, do they disrupt some of those signals? Like, things like corn syrup and other things, do they disrupt our signals? I think, that's a curiosity I have. I don't know anything about this. Do you know anything about that?

Linh Phan: 11:21

Yes. I mean, a little bit. I don't really know too much on the topic. But the thing that we need to remember, is that yes, like these things that have been added to food, it's made for us to crave more of it. It's made for us to continue eating, right? But the thing that we often don't tap into, is how we feel when we eat these things, until it's too late. Right? When we eat a bag of chips, like I love potato chips, I love ketchup, potato chips, I'm from Canada. Every time I come back to Germany, where I live, I always bring like a few bags with me. And I recognize that there are additives in there to make it extra delicious. But when you slow down your eating process, right? When you actually pay attention to eating, and what I mean by that is being mindful of what you're actually eating like, you know, noticing what you're eating first of all, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:17

Yes. You're just shoving things into your mouth and running from this thing, and yes, whatever you do that.

Linh Phan: 12:21

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And actually being present with the food and actually appreciating it, you'll notice, for me anyway, like the first bite of that potato chip? Oh, my God, Shawna. It's so good. The way it just sits on my tongue, like the acid just kind of lightly nipping at my tongue and the flavor. There's like, sweet and salty in there. And like, I just freaking love it. But then I noticed maybe halfway in the bag, it doesn't taste as good anymore. It doesn't have that same flavor anymore.

Shawna Rodrigues: 12:27

Yeah.

Linh Phan: 12:34

So then, that's when I'm like, Okay, I've satisfied my craving, I'm going to actually put the rest of this away. And I'm gonna save it for later or for another day so that I can revisit that first bite again.

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:06

Oh, I love it. And by the way, you could be a food critic. That was beautiful. I love that. That was lovely. I really didn't know that. I didn't know that.

Linh Phan: 13:14

Thank you. But also another thing too, that we don't really stop to realize until it's too late is that, are we getting full from this food? There are so many things that stop us from feeling our fullness. I have a tendency to want to clean my plate, for example. So I make a conscious effort now like, am I full? Before I finish this plate, like, am I already full? Because if I am, maybe I should stop.

Shawna Rodrigues: 13:39

Yes.

Linh Phan: 13:39

Right? So it's the same thing with a bag of chips. I stop myself frequently. And I say, Okay, I've had half a bag of chips. It's not as satisfying anymore. How am I feeling in regards to my fullness? And oftentimes, I'll kind of feel bloated, and I know that if I finished the bag of chips, I would be more bloated and I actually choose not to go for that additional discomfort. So in regards to your question about these additives, yes, they are there to make us continue eating because obviously, if we continue eating, we spend more money and we buy this things, but at the same time, it also increases the chances of having this shame and guilt around actually finishing the whole bag. But if you tap into these feelings, okay, like, why am I feeling this shame? Why am I feeling this guilt? Am I actually enjoying this? Is this actually satisfying for me? Is this actually filling me up? These are things that, it's information that our bodies are giving us that we choose not to acknowledge or we are not aware of them.

Shawna Rodrigues: 14:41

Yes, absolutely. No, I love that. The, am I enjoying this? Is this actually satisfying? I think are questions that I know I don't ask myself. And it's great to know that we have this way to build and against that instead of like checking labels and see if it has this or that or the other thing to actually is just see how am I responding to it? How does my body felt when I eat this, and how can I pay attention to that and make choices accordingly? I love it.

Linh Phan: 15:06

Yeah. And also taking the time to like, actually be with the food, right? Nowadays, like, we're so busy, we're working while we're eating, we're scrolling on our phones, we're checking emails, you know, we're like, trying to feed the kids, like, so many things are distracting us from the actual eating experience. And so when we actually focus on that, or like, even, you know, be even slightly aware, it changes the way we approach food as well, right? And it changes the way that we're actually eating the food. You might realize that actually, you don't like the taste of something if you actually pay attention to it, right? You know, so it's just this awareness.

Shawna Rodrigues: 15:48

Yeah. You know, it's a funny little thing that I actually do. And the joke is that I can be a snob about chocolates, but it's a matter of, if I'm going to have chocolate, I'm going to have really good chocolate. Like, I'm not gonna waste and it is like, I do the calorie thing too, which I should get rid of that. But it doesn't matter to me say like, if I'm gonna have something that I, you know, is a sweet treat, I'm going to spend my time having like the best dark chocolate salted caramel, or I'm going to have like this really great truffle, or I'm gonna have this really good chocolate if I'm going to have it which makes it easier to say no to the stuff, that's the Halloween candy, which I haven't been eating lately, because I had access to Halloween candy because I visited families that had trick or treat and I had candy back then. But it makes it easier if I tell myself like oh, no, I have the really good chocolate at home to not have the other chocolates because I know how happy I am when I get to have this really amazing good stuff. So not, yeah, that makes me very happy. Good shot. That's good stuff.

Linh Phan: 16:45

Yeah, I mean, like, and that's the thing to like, when you realize, when you slow down the process, you do recognize, Oh, actually, like having a Hershey Kiss is not the same as having this delicious Lindt truffle, right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 17:00

Yes. Lindt truffle. Those are the ones. Just saying, just saying these are these Amaranta ones you could buy anyway. Anyways, yeah, so good. I can't get those in the stores. I need to go to the outlets. When I was in Boston, there was a Lindt store downtown. Oh, truffles from Lindt, those are just amazing. But they had the dark chocolate ones I can get, the big bags from Costco, those are the dark chocolate Lindt ones. And those I would be very happy to. I like, I like my Lindt chocolates. I like my, I'm very specific on those things. But it does help. Like, when you have like the things you know are gonna satisfy the craving, it makes it easier to not say yes to the things that just aren't quite what you want. But it is okay to have that. Right now, Watermelon Sour Patch Kids are the rage, and I love those that kids and adults alike. So we want that sour sweet. That's the trick. It's okay to have those. We're having this conversation about intuitive eating and all the good things that could satisfy your cravings. And so we have ketchup, potato chips, and what else do we have? All the good things that satisfy them. So it's important to do that. And your body will start telling you what it needs, and it's important to listen to your body. And actually, I think, do you crave vegetables sometimes and then I don't have them. I should listen to my body.

Linh Phan: 18:17

That's the thing, right? Like, you know, when I tell my clients like, you can eat what you want, whatever you want. Like if we take away the moral value of food, food is just food, our bodies will actually start telling us okay, I want chocolate today, or I want vegetables today. Right? The moral value that we often assign food, something like this is healthy, this is unhealthy, this is bad for you, this is good for you. This is a guilty pleasure. This is a treat. This just increases the chances of feeling guilty and shameful for your choices. So when you take away the moral value of food, and you recognize that it's all equal, and give yourself that permission to eat, whatever it is that you want, and then paying attention to how your body reacts to it, right? Like my sister, for example. She's lactose intolerant, but loves a good tiramisu. And so she makes that choice for herself, like, do I want to suffer the consequences of this later just so that I can have this tiramisu? And often the answer is yes. But it's a choice that she makes for herself, right? Like she recognizes what the effects are on her body. But it's that choice. She wants to enjoy this and so she's going to suffer the consequences later. It's when you do things by default and automatically where we kind of get into some trouble because then it doesn't become intentional anymore.

Shawna Rodrigues: 19:47

Mm hmm. Yes. And I think even with kids. So I have a career working in Headstart which the state, it's a program that works with three to five year olds and zero to three year olds in some capacity but we have family style dining is how they recommend to do the lunches with the meals with the kids. And the kids actually, like, they serve what they feel like eating is what they serve themselves instead of actually being given like, here is the set serving that you're supposed to eat, like when you go to the cafeteria when you're older, and they just give you the scoop of food and that's what you're supposed to eat. So the kids are choosing what they want, and how much they're getting. And it was neat for me to learn about that as a side thing for the work I was doing because my specialty is mental health. I just worked in an environment where I get to learn about this. And the importance of kids doing that, because it allowed them to choose how much they wanted to eat and what they were eating. And it was a good education opportunity to talk about like, does your body also want green beans right now? And do you want to add some other things and talk about the different kinds of food because it's a learning opportunity for kids. But that's also part of instead of saying you have to clean your plate of whatever I gave you, it's an opportunity for kids to sample different things. And for that to be them choosing how much food they got and kind of that that piece but having that second conversation of like, how is this affecting you? I did this with one of my friends when I was back east around Halloween, there was a kid who's bouncing off the wall. And I mentioned like, I didn't notice you had a lot of sugar and didn't even reached dinner. I wonder if that's why you have so much energy right now.

Linh Phan: 21:15

Yeah, it would be interesting too if this child like, has parents who restricts them from having sugar, right? Because oftentimes, if you're in a situation of black, where you don't have access to things, right? When you do have access to it, you tend to go overboard, because it's like, I don't know when I'm going to get this next. So I'm going to like hoard or I'm going to like eat as much as I can because I don't know when the next time is. Then the next one will be, when I can have this. So it'd be interesting to note that and going back to your Headstart program, right? Like, it's also teaching kids that they have autonomy over their bodies. A lot of the time, if we're taken in by diet culture, we're allowing an external thing to tell us what to do, when to eat, and we lose that ability to make that choice for ourselves. Right? And so intuitive eating allows you to come back to yourself, and it allows you to recognize that you have control over your body.

Shawna Rodrigues: 22:15

Yes. Well, even with kids like having that conversation, because it's a little more complicated, because a lot of kids might eat because they're bored or for this or that. The other thing, but to be able to have that conversation with them around, so you're telling me that you're hungry, is your body hungry? Is your body, is your belly feeling hungry right now? Or are you looking for something to do? And can we give you something to do like, for adults, cause it's a longer conversation than like, No, we're done with sugar for today. You know what I mean? Or to be able to have a conversation of, you have a lot of energy, I wonder if that energy is related to that. So sometimes it's good to have energy, and that's what we have like that. But sometimes we have too much energy. And it can be hard to play with our friends because we have too much energy. So having that way of thinking and having those conversations is the hard way to shift it because I wasn't raised with talking about food like that. I don't think any but I definitely, send me notes if you were, that's awesome. Praise your parents. But a lot of people aren't raised that way. They don't talk about it like that when we're at school and other places about like, you know, your body is tired. I think you could use some fuel. Why don't you? Is there, do you want a banana? Do you want something? Because you could use it as fuel. Do you want a cheese snack, because, is that something you could use as fuel? Like, trying to figure out like what good fuel for your body is and how that makes your body feel until you have that and have those conversations when you're eating dinner or like houses making your body feel like those aren't conversations that, that we think to have and we don't have mother cells alone with our kids.

Linh Phan: 23:39

Yeah, and the thing like you know, when a child is feeling tired, or when an adult is feeling tired, right? What would actually make you feel better in this instance? Is it sleep? Because if you're not getting enough sleep that will mess up your ability to recognize your body signals, right? You're gonna want to reach for that food to stay awake. Like when I was working in the office, I was eating so much because I was like, oh my god, like I need to, I need to stay awake because this webinar is like super boring. So I just need like something crunchy, you know? And so recognizing like, what are the emotions that are coming up for me right now? Right? Like, a lot of us will self soothe, a lot of us will reach for food when we feel difficult emotions. And so part of intuitive eating is also recognizing, okay, if I'm not biologically hungry right now, what's coming up for me that I want food? What am I feeling? Is it fatigue? Is it, am I procrastinating? Am I bored? Is there something else that I can do that will help me feel less bored, less fearful, less procrastinating? Is that a word?

Shawna Rodrigues: 24:43

That is a word. I use it all the time. I can't believe you used that, Linh. I feel like, it's for me when I can't get organized and I do something like, I go get something to eat. Like when I feel like overwhelmed like that's my way obviously regulating somehow is putting food in my mouth and I don't know how that helps anything. But that definitely, it doesn't, it doesn't solve the problem because then 10 minutes later, I'm looking for something else to put in my mouth.

Linh Phan: 25:10

Yeah, absolutely. I used to do the same thing. Like I used to have a desk full of food, because I was always like munching, right? I was always doing something and recognizing that, oh, this is a substitute for something. And it's okay. If you want to reach for food to deal with your feelings. Absolutely. But make it an intentional

Shawna Rodrigues: 25:30

and awareness. Yeah,

Linh Phan: 25:31

yeah, exactly. Instead of like automatically reaching for it. And then if you're going to eat the food, enjoy it. You may as well enjoy it.

Shawna Rodrigues: 25:41

Yes, see, even Linh does it. I think the next time after our conversation now, the next time I'm trying to get myself organized, I get to stop and eat the thing and say, like, is this making me feel more organized? Is this helping me focus better? Let me see, instead of just like having it be a one off, because maybe it does help. But I'm so busy shoving it in my mouth. And moving on to being disorganized. I'm not actually giving it the chance to do that. So maybe you could do that for me. I don't know, I've never stopped to think about it. I'm too busy just shoving something in my mouth and moving on to being stressed again, you know?

Linh Phan: 26:12

Like in this instance, in this instance, like, if you're feeling stressed, like, what would be helpful for you?

Shawna Rodrigues: 26:17

Yes, yes. Does that actually help? Because it doesn't seem to because I just get more food later. So, we'll see, well, actually give it a chance and be mindful about it mindful. We'll try it, we'll try it. It will be crazy. And try that. I love it. This is so helpful. It is such a valuable conversation. And I love it. Because I think as people are starting the new year and trying to like set patterns for themselves, and they're seeing, Oh my god, I set this goal of losing this or doing this, instead of No, let's set a pattern of why don't I be mindful about what I'm doing with my eating and be intuitive about my eating, and set new habits related to that. And that can be what my resolving to do this year, instead of doing something else is going to be the same routine, because I think, I know I've seen the research and more people seeing the research that diets don't work, and you actually put on more weight at the end than you lost. And that's where we get to where we're going in life as you keep putting on more weight after you lose it, you do lose it like you can stick to it and restrict and lose it. And then when you stop losing it, you come back and put on more than you lost in the first place. And so it's like, it's getting this to a detrimental place in the end instead of changing habits that are like the mindfulness piece that overall kind of help us to get to a better place in the long run, which is what we want. And we want to be thinking about next year at the end of 2023, reflecting back to say, Oh, I listened to that and look at the difference it made. Or I started working with land and looking at a different thing. You have, you actually work with people one on one to actually have these conversations more frequently to help them stick to this, right?

Linh Phan: 27:53

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, a lot of the times when I first start with my clients, we recognize like how detrimental diet culture has been for them, right? Like, I've often talked to people, to women especially, who like, have started diets as young as six, you know, eleven, and it's just like, how, how and so like it's decades of this diet mentality, right? Focusing on losing weight, rather than, as you said, implementing these healthy behaviors on what makes you feel good, like that's actually going to be more sustainable than these diets. And the statistic for the failure rate of diets is actually 95%.

Shawna Rodrigues: 28:33

Wow, wow.

Linh Phan: 28:35

95%.

Shawna Rodrigues: 28:37

Wow, staggering.

Linh Phan: 28:39

Yeah. And the number one predictor of weight gain is whether you've been on a diet.

Shawna Rodrigues: 28:45

Oh, wow. That's amazing. That is incredible to know.

Linh Phan: 28:49

Yeah. Because yeah, it gives me goosebumps, because I'm just like, how? This is a multibillion dollar industry that has been set up to feed off of our insecurities, right? And when we are "successful," and I put that in air quotes, you know, like, and when we're successful in the diets, when we can take the weight off, we attribute it to the diet. But then when the diets don't work, who do we attribute it to?

Shawna Rodrigues: 29:19

Yes, we should take on those feelings ourselves and, and well, and everyone else puts it on us. If I hear like, one more, doctors, I'll say it quietly, but doctors talking about you need to lose weight and start acting like it's a personal failing that you haven't lost the weight or that you are the problem. Like it's not that simple. So, yeah.

Linh Phan: 29:41

That whole mentality is based on fat phobia. Right? It's like, the idea that if you're fat, you're unhealthy. And by extension, if you're thin, you're healthy. And we know that that is not true. Right?

Shawna Rodrigues: 29:56

It's more comlicated than that.

Linh Phan: 29:58

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But we're perpetuating this idea that we need to be in a thin body in order to be healthy, be able to, you know, be worthy to be loved and be beautiful and all of these things, and it's just,

Shawna Rodrigues: 30:14

yeah, yes. And the health outcomes. There's like this connection, like the causality or the correlation, that stuff is not very clear to me, at least I know that there's like this correlation about how much of that is related to other factors. And how much of that is tethered out when they're making these decisions. And, yes, it makes some things easier. But it's not. That's not the key. Diets are not the key to resolving these things. This is so valuable. I love it. I love it. And as we were getting to the end of our time,

Linh Phan: 30:46

no.

Shawna Rodrigues: 30:44

I know this has been so great. I want to just keep talking to you. As part of it, we wind down, we start talking about, we are going to get to how you can get in touch with Linh and learn more about that. But let's start with what you do for self care. What do you do for self care, Linh?

Linh Phan: 31:01

I am, I love self care. So I like having little rituals. Every morning, I wake up, and I thank the universe. And I express my gratitude to the universe by bringing whatever is happening in my life, into my life, even the bad bits, recognizing that there is a reason for everything. And that, you know, I can learn from these tough times, but also being very excited about the good times too. And then I give myself a hug. And then I tell myself, I love me. And I drink this thing of water because girl needs to be hydrated after a long nights sleep. So this is how I set my mornings like this is how I like start my mornings because it's like that little nugget of alone time just for me before I like start the craziness of checking my phone, checking my email, like doing all the other stuff. So that's like the morning ritual that I have. I work out regularly like moving my body is so important to me, like I love getting my sweat on. So I'll like, do like hit class, boxing, strength training, yoga, like anything to just get my body moving, get the body flowing. I go to therapy every three weeks. Even when I am not going through any sort of crisis, like I still go because it's just a way of maintaining my mental health. And like you never know like things will come up in everyday life that I'll need to unpack with my therapist that I didn't even know that I needed to unpack. So rather than going when I'm at this, like super heightened emotional state, like I just go on the regular just to make sure that everything is cool.

Shawna Rodrigues: 32:47

That is awesome. Sorry, so you live in Germany, and is that part of like the culture there? Or part of like the entrance yet because this is amazing. You going on a regular basis is something you prioritize. I love it.

Linh Phan: 33:01

This is something that I prioritize myself. Yeah, for sure. Like I started this like after I had like that nervous breakdown. And I just haven't stopped. So I've been going to my therapist for I think over three years now.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:13

That is awesome.

Linh Phan: 33:14

Actually, almost four. Yeah, I love her. It's so great. It's like my ultimate form of self care. Oh, and I get my nails done. When I get my nails done, like I go and like take myself out on a date afterwards.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:26

Oh, nice.

Linh Phan: 33:27

Have dinner or lunch by myself and I read a book or whatever it is that I need that day, maybe I'll connect with a friend. Sleeping for at least seven hours is super important, right, to make sure that my brain is working like optimally. And yeah, like I have all sorts of self care. So I can talk about this forever.

Shawna Rodrigues: 33:47

I love it. No, the nails is great. My, my sister, she does that regularly. And it is definitely her thing that she does for herself, which is great that she had that thing that she does for herself with getting her nails done. So and I have another friend that does it frequently. And she does it as regularly as my sister does. But my sister makes it a priority. So that's, it's important to have those things that you do for you. And you recognize this is my thing. And I prioritize this for me, you had to have those things. So make those a priority. I like it. That's awesome. Yes. And so as we're winding down then so we have what we call our grit wit, which is something we can take away and apply immediately which I have lots of thoughts about the things you've shared that we could apply immediately. But before we do that, is there anything we didn't touch on that you want to make sure that we bring in other than how to connect with you? Is there anything about our topic we didn't get to kind of finalize?

Linh Phan: 34:39

Oh, I mean, I could have talked to you forever. So

Shawna Rodrigues: 34:44

I agree. So I just didn't want you to feel cut off because we shifted quickly.

Linh Phan: 34:48

Yeah, so I would like to share that the thing that is underlying all of intuitive eating, apart from self care is also self compassion. Self compassion, right? And so a big difference between dieting and intuitive eating is that intuitive eating has self compassion. There are no rules, you know, we have these principles, there are 10 principles, and they're there to just gently guide you, right? And any, there's no right or wrong. It's not a linear journey. You know, it's a journey, right? And so when those times come up, when you feel like you're, you've done something wrong, or whatever it is, speak to yourself like you would to your friend, to your partner, or to your child's, to your favorite pet, right? Because I think a lot of us tend to have this tendency to immediately go to the negative self talk, right? We would never say the things that we say to ourselves to other people, right? And like, we deserve that self care. We deserve to be treated nicely. We deserve to have these loving words spoken to us. So I would say that the takeaway is to just be aware of the times when you talk to yourself, is it positive? Is it negative? Is it neutral? You know, what can we do to like, bring more of that compassion into our lives?

Shawna Rodrigues: 36:15

Oh, I love it. So our grit wit is it, somebody needs to, if you're listening right now, that you're going to start listening to what you're saying to yourself, and having that self compassion. So not even starting with food, necessarily, or we're going to start with food?

Linh Phan: 36:29

It can be anything. I feel like the negative, the negative self talk is, it's rampant.

Shawna Rodrigues: 36:36

We're going to start with that, because that's the importance of that awareness is the first step of even getting to be able to hear it when it comes to food, to be aware of what we're saying to ourselves negatively, that we need to have more compassion with ourselves, and be able to adjust those conversations and what we're saying to ourselves to be able to, to say the things that we would want our best friend to say, our good friend to say, what Shawna would say to you, from The Grit Show, the things that we would say about how amazing you are and how unique you are and the great things that you're offering and the different lens that you need to be using around that. And then you could start applying it to food. But start right now, in this minute with listening to what you're saying to yourself and how you can reframe it. I love that. Beautiful, that is beautiful, Linh. I love that. So let's get to how people can connect with you and you have a lead magnet, for those of you that don't know what a lead magnet is, it's basically a great way that you can get to know Linh a little bit better, get a free item from her to get to know her and get kind of on her radar to be connected with her and get in her circle a little bit. So she has one that she's going to be offering to us, we're gonna put it into the show notes. So you guys can just click on it and get access to it. So tell us about this. It's kind of like a body scan and audio thing that people can get listened to, right? So tell us about this, Linh. I want to hear more about it.

Linh Phan: 37:54

Yeah, so it's a 10 minute body scan. So it's a little audio clip of me just taking you through paying attention to what your body feels in that moment. It's a way to get yourself in touch with your body, it's a way to get yourself present. You know, we're often thinking about the things that we have to get done or the things that we should have done, but we don't focus on the present. And so this body scan is for people who just want to take a little bit of time for themselves. It's a little bit of self care. And it's also a way to reconnect with your body again, right? Like how often do we actually sit down and just say, how am I feeling? What is my body feeling right now? Where is the attention? This body scan is good for people who just want to take a moment and reconnect and just have some time for themselves.

Shawna Rodrigues: 38:43

I love it. I think that is so perfect. So that'll be a great way for you guys to get to hear a little more from Linh and get connected to Linh. And that will be in the show notes so you guys can follow the link, to get access to that and get access to Linh, that is perfect. And then also is there, is it great to follow you on social media? What's a great way to be connected to you?

Linh Phan: 39:02

Yeah, so I'm most present on Instagram. So I'm @bona.fide.life, so that'll be in the show notes as well. Yeah, and I give like tidbits on intuitive eating and how you can bring some more joy into your life and yeah, and I'll be making some announcements soon like I want to start some group coaching next year because I feel like there's so much power in sharing our experiences. You know, oftentimes we feel so alone on this journey of life and like dieting and our bodies and so to have this space where we can just be with each other and share and just recognize that, oh my gosh, other people have the same experience.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:43

Yes. Yeah. Connect, connect. It's so valuable. I love that. So we'll definitely make sure that we keep that post in the show notes as those things come available too, you can give us that information as well but DMing you on Instagram is a Okay for folks who want to connect to you more?

Linh Phan: 39:57

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Shawna Rodrigues: 39:59

Perfect. It is great. Thank you so much, Linh. This has been so valuable.

Linh Phan: 40:03

Thank you so much. And thank you to the listeners who have stuck around and stayed for the whole conversation.

Shawna Rodrigues: 40:09

Yes, there are laughing and all the goodness we had to offer. I love it. Yes. I love it. I love it. Thank you.

Linh Phan: 40:15

Thank you so much, Shawna.

Shawna Rodrigues: 40:25

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