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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Decision making is something we do every single day, multiple times a day. It’s something that occasionally we lose our intentionality around that we start going with a flow and making decisions by default. This is something that today's guest has spent some time looking at In fact, she's writing a book on it. We have an amazing conversation in store for you today with Doctor Walji, -- around intentional decision making, and a few other things. I think you're gonna get a lot out of it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:37

Welcome to the Grit Show, where our focus is growth on purpose. I am your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored you part of this community. as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today. As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates the fun that thinks of them, and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:15

Are you ready to meet your BFF and new life strategist? That is what it says on one of her pages of her website, and I love it. It perfectly sums her up. She may have a double doctorate, but her warmth and openness is what you'll be drawn to. She pays a picture of mindlessly scrolling through social media and her TED talk, prompting the conversation of how we unintentionally let our intentionality slip away. I'm so excited for today's conversation. Rishma Walji trained as a naturopathic doctor and PhD. She spent over 20 years in clinical practice helping patients make big decisions about health hormones, and family. She's currently writing a book. Yay. About intentional decision making. A lot of her work is related to awareness and emotion. that can either guide or mislead our life choices. This is important stuff. She's also the host of the XO conversation podcast. Isn't that wonderful? I love fellow podcasters, and she is a TEDx speaker. So welcome doctor Rishma Walji. We're so glad to have you today on The Grit Show.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:02:16

Oh, thank you so much. What a lovely intro. That's wonderful. Thank you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:20

I know. I love the new BFF and life strategies. That's good stuff. Like, you're the one that came up with it. I just read it. So I got to come up with how to make it, you know, work it in.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:02:29

It's so fun to be here chatting with you. As I said before, I feel like we could for hours.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:33

I know. I know. Everyone here, we're gonna have to, like, cram this in. So if I start talking fast, it's because I'm so excited to be talking with doctor Rishma today because she is lovely and fabulous, and we connected over the podcast piece. And then I started getting to know her, and she just has so much wonderful information to offer And so I love this transition. So tell us a little more about how 20 years of doing naturopathic PhD the health world, and then switching over to his intentionality about decisions. And there's obviously a wonderful link there, so talk to us about that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:03:03

Yeah. For sure. I love -- giving people a voice and specifically people who otherwise wouldn't. So at the beginning of my career, I worked a lot with women because in health care, I felt like a lot of health care wasn't directed to women. Like, we don't learn about our bodies. We don't learn about our hormones the way that I think we should. And then Walji just culturally cultural back around. Like, I feel like a lot of women in certain cultures don't get the voice that they need. So I kind of just went in sort of as an advocate in health care, and then, of course, fertility, family planning, hormones, all the taboo topics, the things that we wanna know, but we don't know how to ask. And I went into that loved it for 20 years. I'm just gonna lay it all out there because I know you do this with your podcast too. It got really heavy. Like, it was wonderful. I got a lot of great results. It was, like, really rewarding seeing the babies, but it got really heavy. You know? Like, people were going through really tough things. They were going through miscarriages. And so there was a reward on one end, but there was also always someone else who would come in with something really Shawna. And I get really attached even though you're not supposed to in in health care. but I get really attached, really connected to people. And then we went through this period where my parents needed some support. My in laws needed some support. My kids were at this age where they needed help And I was like, it was too much. So I needed a break. I took a break for myself. I tried to walk the talk. I told my patients. I'm like, I tell you to manage your stress. This is what I'm doing for me. I'm managing my stress. I'm managing myself. I'm protecting my energy. And I also noticed that people would ask, like, how were you leaving a very busy, successful practice and take your time for yourself. And then what are you doing to heal emotionally? And so I started talking about it because I realized then That there was a theme in all of my work about making big decisions that were not easy. And I think that's the piece that's missing in the conversation about decisions. We think the decisions are which one is Shawna be the right decision. Which one is gonna be the best decision? And in reality, what's right for you is different than what's right for me, and also sometimes there isn't a right decision. Like, especially when you're thinking about health care or fertility, like, 2 options are not they're both bad options. Like, I don't wanna do either of them, but I have to pick 1. Right? And so a lot of what I did was help people make decisions not because they were the better decision, but because they were sort of in a corner. What do I do? And that sort of translates into life and me taking time off. It was the right decision for me, but I had to leave my practice. I had to leave my patients. I had to leave a steady income. Not like it was perfect, but it was the right decision for me. And so I started just out of interest and passion going down this road of how do we live better with our decisions because I had all this background, and then it sort of spiraled into what I'm doing now.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:46

That's incredible, and it's so important to have that pause and look at it because I think that for all of us, There was something that's I don't remember if somebody said it or even heard it, but about the grass isn't always greener. It's the angle at which you're looking at it. Right? that you're looking at from different angles, it looks like, oh, you know what? Like, Shawna has this great life. She's lived all these places. She's done all these things. But, no, I've had to give up a lot of things to do that. And so it's a matter of you choosing the priority. It's, like, what you want, what your priority is. And so knowing what you want when you make these decisions, you're always trading off something no matter Like, when you're purchasing something at the store, you're choosing to spend your money on this or this. It says constant trade offs of decisions, and it's not always a clear win in most situations.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:06:31

No. There's not a clear one. A lot of people, you know, people identifying as women as do I or as did I when I was doing fertility even though it's a two person thing. I would always get the partner to come in. But oftentimes, it was the women who are asking the questions. But I think there's a piece that people don't talk about, and that is that we often have to make this choice under imperfect circumstances. And we often have to give of ourselves in order to do that, and so that's the piece that I'm interested in.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:00

That's so exciting, and you're writing an entire book about it. I love it. How is your book writing going? How is that process?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:07:07

Oh my gosh. It's so hard. This is a part also no one talks about. Right? You see people with all these books out and, oh, they have a best seller or whatever. The actual writing is so hard. I have all the thoughts I'm really stimulated by the research and the the understanding of the information. That's the part that I love. So that part is easy for me. making connections, coming up with the thoughts and the ideas, but putting words on a page is really, really challenging for me. This is not something that comes easily. But, again, it's a little meta. Like, I'm using my own thoughts around decision making to help me get through this book because I come up against an obstacle, and then I'm like, what do I really want? What am I trying to get out of this? What is holding me back? Right? I sort of use this stuff on myself in order to get past this next obstacle. And I'm gonna say there's obstacles almost every week. Like, every day, it's something different.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:58

You're putting your theory to the test. Like, you didn't realize your book writing was gonna put in your theory to the test, but you are putting your theory to the test. Right?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:08:06

Yeah. For sure. For sure. But it's wonderful. I'm really I'm loving it. I'm enjoying it. I feel like it's gonna help people if I can just get it out onto the paper the way that I want it to be. And I'm I'm there. Like, I'm I have a sort of a rough ish draft, so I'm almost there. I'm getting there.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:08:21

That's exciting. So do you feel like that's part of the pressure is, like, knowing that you really want this to make an impact and wanted to connect to people? And that's heavy at times, I bet.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:08:30

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. But it also really helps me make my decisions. Like, sometimes I see these things, you know, oh, write your book in a weekend or get your book out faster. And those are great for people who want a book to establish their authority and then be able to have someone come into their whatever consulting or practice or whatever they're trying to do for their business. And for me, this book is really close to my heart, and it's something that is sort of in my mind, but it's not something that I have been thinking about for 20 years. It's something I've been thinking about for a couple of years. So I'm still testing out how to phrase words, how to phrase what I wanna say, and I know what I wanna say, and I know it's useful, but I'm testing it out. And so My main goal is to make it a helpful book. And so the decisions that I make, it becomes slower to write because I'm testing it out. I'm doing coaching. I did retreat. to test out my message. Because I wanted to see, is this working for you? Do you understand what I'm saying in this way? What questions do you have? And so the book writing itself has become a lot slower, but I feel more comfortable with the ideas that are coming out of my head because I'm making decisions in order to make it a helpful book It sounds weird that everyone wants to make their book a helpful book, I hope. Right? But you have different goals and different timelines and different reasons for those goals, I would like it to be a best seller, but that's not my main goal. Right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:09:45

Yes. You really wanted to connect, and I think that that's a really important piece. And that's the test seen it. And I feel like that's a message that's often missing. So as we're looking at our future entrepreneurs, our current entrepreneurs that I feel that has step that kind of gets glossed over and all of the quick fixes, and let's get this done fast. That a lot of business is testing and trying and seeing what works and seeing what resonates. And when you find your genuine message, it's something you connect with and something you feel passionately about, like, you have more momentum with it and you have that better piece, but you still wanna make sure it's resonating with your audience. And that takes time. Like, you can't substitute that time. And so if it is something you've been doing for 30 years, if you've been in theater for 30 years and you're able to connect your message to something you've done in theater 30 years. Like, that's one thing. But if you're doing a new way of thinking and evolving, then it's a whole different piece. So I totally get that. I totally get that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:10:42

Yeah. For sure. It's definitely an experiment. It's a test on my confidence. It's a test on my willpower, like, all of the things, but It's super stimulating. I feel like I'm growing. I'm enjoying it, which, you know, for me, I've always want to love my job. And part of the way I've treated my practice to I just wanna help people and the money will come. Like, that was just something that I had a belief for, and it worked, and that it helped me. And I know not everyone can think that way, people have different sort of approaches in their business, but For me, it was, like, if I help people, it'll just happen. But I have to do it in a way that protects my own energy, protects myself so that I'm not depleting myself in the process.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:18

I love that philosophy. When I started this podcast many years since I started, I didn't launch until the end of July, but when I started this podcast, that was kind of my conversation. I was trying all these other things, doing all these different stuff after I left my career and had written a novel and was doing writing and was doing consulting and started the podcast it was when I was saying, like, I can't wait to find out how I can make money podcasting. I can't wait to find out how this is gonna, like, become this thing. And I feel like that curiosity and that openness is the best approach for business and things. And it turned out, like, I have a podcast network, which is not what I thought was gonna happen. I thought it was gonna be like, oh, am I gonna have a Patreon am I going to have sponsors? Am I going to like, which of these options that everyone else thinks of am I going to think of? But when you're open, like, it's amazing. the way things come together that you never would have imagined. And so it's exciting to be curious and open and follow your passions and your love and be of service and see what comes of that. So I love that kind of your approach.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:12:15

Yeah. For sure. And then you can be creative with your solutions too. Right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:18

Yes. Which is awesome. So let's talk a little bit more about this intentionality and how easily we've all slipped from intentionality. I wanna hear more about that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:12:27

Yeah. For sure. I think it's one of those things you think you're intentional. Right? We all think we're -- self aware. We like to think we're intentional. We think about our decisions really hard before we make them. And we all do, and I'm I'm not saying that we shouldn't. For sure, we should do that. But I think there's a piece that we don't realize. And even I go through this myself, so I have the same problems as everyone else that we actually make a lot of our decisions. We don't realize what's happening underneath all of that. It's we have a habit. We have a subconscious thought or a belief or a fear or something else Maybe we're influenced by someone who we're around now or in our childhood. Someone tells us something, and then we believe that for the rest of our lives. You know? And then All of our decisions are shaped based on that. So we have these subconscious influences or sometimes it's just that we're busy and we haven't paused to think Is this what I want? Or am I just doing this because other people told me I should do it? Right? And this happens in business. It happens in life. And we just have all of these things that we don't realize are shaping our decisions. So I guess the premise of what I do in my book is that there are so many decisions that essentially are made for us. We don't realize it. but they're made for us. So if we can just be aware and then make the decision according to that awareness, we're It's always a process. We're gonna have to think about our awareness forever. It's not something that just happens overnight. But if we can make our decisions in a more aware way, How can we bring to the surface the things that are important for us to be conscious with making our decision? And how can we push down into our subconscious the things that we want to just believe and be automated? because we have to automate something. Right? You can't just make all the decisions consciously. But how do I for example, if I'm talking to someone about nutrition, Right? We wanna eat well, but then when stress happens, we eat poorly. This is just an association, a habit, something that we do. And I think a lot of people have this. Right? So how do you start thinking about the things in a more aware way and then making it a habit to eat more healthy, something that is more subconscious? And I think that's the piece that we often miss. We try to instill a habit, and it's like, okay. I'll just do this for 7 days and hope that I do it all the time. But then stress happen. Life happens. And if we haven't made that association in our subconscious that, oh, you know, drinking a green smoothie is going to make me feel energized, then I'm not Shawna drink a green smoothie because I'm tired, and I was up all night, and my kids were crying. And I'm just gonna grab the chocolate and the caffeine. So we need to actually in a proactive way change our autopilot thinking.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:14:58

Yes. That is perfect. And so we're doing that. Like, is that something that is it takes time to do that, or is it more of us talking to ourselves and feeding the information back so we have a reason behind why we're doing it?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:15:12

Yeah. It really takes awareness. Like, you have to do it consciously, and it seems like hard work, and it is. It's not easy. But I think the more practice we have, the more self aware we are. I think a lot of people are self aware. They just don't necessarily know what to do with that awareness. Like, I know that I'm motivated xy and z and not by abc. Right? So let me give you a personal example. We started exercising and My husband he looks to ride his bike outside. So we decided to go biking together, and he needs to have these big goals. Right? Like, I'm gonna ride 50 kilometers And for me, I'm like, I don't wanna do that. I'm gonna feel discouraged because I can't do that right now. I need to work myself up to it so we know we have different personalities. And so knowing that about ourselves, we set our motivation goals differently. And then I had to also tell myself and start to believe It took a long time that I enjoy biking. I didn't enjoy it when I started. My butt was hurting. My legs were hurting. The weather wasn't good. Like, it was not a fun experience at the beginning, but I had to remind myself that, oh, I feel energized when I'm done. I feel good about myself when I'm done. I get to be out in the fresh air. I'm not thinking about work, and this is good for me. I had to remind myself of all those things over and over and over again so that I would start to build that association where, actually, I enjoy bike riding now.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:16:33

Yes. Yes. And I was actually just with family over the weekend and it came up twice to 2 different family members where there was something like, oh, I'm just bad at math. I'm just bad at math. I'm bad at math. I was like, is there any way we can reframe that that, like, you need to work harder at math or math takes a little more time or that you're working on math or that you're still understanding math or something of it. I'm just bad at math. And it's funny because, like, as they were saying it clearly is, like, a message in my family because it wasn't just one person in my family that was saying that. And it was supposed to be things. It's like, if you keep telling yourself that you didn't even realize they didn't even realize they're telling themselves that, but you're never gonna get good or feel confident or be comfortable with math if that's what you're constantly telling yourself. So I don't think we realize we don't listen to ourselves sometimes. We just say these things automatically that have been said to us once or that our family says or that I would put money in the fact that mom probably always said that. And so we just hear that from somebody else in our life, and then we just start saying the same thing. And we don't even realize, like, this is a message we're giving ourselves. And now we're giving to, like, my niece's son is getting that message from his current age. Oh, I'm just bad at math. I'm just bad at math. I'm just bad at math instead of actually registering or realizing, no. This is something we work on and we get skills and we get better at. Instead of I'm not even gonna try, I'm just bad at math. This is my family's bad at math. We don't even try.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:17:50

So let's take that example for a second. I'm gonna riff on this if you don't mind. Just for a second. Okay. So what I'm writing about is the fact that we need to have awareness not only in our goal setting, but also in our action taking. So when we want something in life, we need to know that one we have the right goal because Do you really want to go into that career? Or is it because your parents said, you know, like, what is the right goal for you? Are you on the right goal before you take the action? And then is this action the right action to take towards that goal? So let's say someone says, I'm bad at math, and they wanna change that association. The first thing is they have to know that they're saying this to themselves. Right? Sometimes we don't realize that we're having this dialogue in our mind that, oh, actually, I might not be bad at math. Maybe that's just something I'm telling myself, or maybe I actually am bad at math, but that doesn't mean I can't change that. Right? So first, there needs to be this awareness that Maybe it's just someone who, let's say, in your audience, like someone who's trying to figure out their finances or someone who's trying to look at their budgeting, and they're like, well, I'm bad at math. But if they wanna look at their finances, they have to have the awareness that they think they're bad at math or they think they're overwhelmed at looking at their numbers. Right? So first is that awareness. Okay. So now my awareness is I wanna change that association with numbers. So that's my goal. It's not that I want to make more money, not right now. This goal is I just wanna change my belief that I don't know how to read my numbers. And then the action is what is the problem with me reading my numbers? Is it that I don't understand it? Is it that I'm overwhelmed that I'm not making enough money? Is it that I don't know how to add the formulas properly. And then you do the action that addresses the thing that you need in order to feel good at math. So maybe the first thing is just totaling your expenses. And all of a sudden now you're like, I did one thing. That means that I can't say I'm bad at math. I was able to total my offenses. So now it feels more comfortable to change the dialogue I'm bad at math into I need to learn my finances. but I can total my expenses because now we have a positive encouragement in the subconscious. Right? Now I don't believe that I'm bad at math anymore because there was something I was able to do. And you just keep changing the association, but your action and your goal have to match.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:20:02

That's perfect. I love it. So you had to figure out so instead of this generalized, I'm bad at math to actually find out what actually are you talking about? What are you overwhelmed with numbers? Are you uncertain about how to approach like, what do you specifically need to address? And then this whole piece where you actually then find your actual successes and actually credit yourself for real successes. because me just saying, you're not bad at That doesn't help anything. That doesn't help anything. It needs to actually be concrete things. Like, just now you add this up or you know how to use your calculator on your phone, you know how to use tools. So you're good at knowing the tools you need to help you be better at math.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:20:37

Yeah. Or you find someone who can teach you something that you don't know. Like, Now there's Walji these opportunities and doors have been opened because now we understand the problem.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:20:47

Yes. I love that. I love that. This is why we have you here today. You're so helpful. I love this. And you also mentioned we were talking earlier about, like, getting to what's behind your beliefs a little bit. Like, what's holding you back? And when you're talking about you're writing, what's slowing you down? Can you talk more about that? I love that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:21:04

Yeah. A lot of it is the things that we tell ourselves. Right? Like, You know, you're so encouraging to your best friend, but you're not that encouraging to yourself. Anything we're all this way. Right? Especially if you tend towards perfectionism or you feel an identity of, I'm smart. I need to be able to do this correctly. You know, it could hold you back where you're not testing. You're not experimenting enough. You want it to be great. And I have this. Do we all do? So we have to identify what are those things that are holding our us back, and it's hard because we have to be honest. like, really honest with ourselves, and sometimes we don't want to admit it. Right? Like, I don't want to admit because my ego will get hurt. Or You know, maybe someone will make fun of me if I put my thing out there, and it's not great yet. Or it's not gonna resonate with everyone. That's you know, damaging to my self esteem. So I need to protect myself. Right? There's things that I need to do in order to protect myself so that I feel comfortable doing that. And so there is there's all these things that influence our decisions in the background that we need to address in order to make Forward steps with the things that we really want.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:09

That's important. So what's a good way to get to that? Like, are there questions you can ask yourself? Is it just being curious? Like, we talk a lot on the show about being curious. Is that kind of where you need to start with that? Just being curious.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:22:20

Yeah. For sure. A lot of it is being curious. I have a a whole process that I outlined in my book, but, basically, it's recognizing what you want and challenging your assumptions. Like, that's the first thing. Right? You have to really first question yourself all the time. And the way that I describe it is it's kind of you wanna be your own best friend, but in the the one that will call you out or have someone in your life who will call you out but in a loving kind Walji. Like, oh, is that really true that you're bad at math? Like, I don't know if that's true or maybe you are, but let's talk about it. Someone is gonna challenge you really push you. Ask you if this is really true what you believe. Recognize your patterns because we all have patterns. Right? We react. We don't respond. We react to something because it upsets us. We react to so there's all these things that we need to do really that help with awareness at the beginning. That's the first step. And it's challenging your assumptions, recognizing your patterns, you know, just really being honest with yourself about the things that you do automatically without realizing it. And sometimes we can do that for ourselves, and sometimes we need help from someone else to do it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:29

Yes. That's so important, and that's one of the values of having those people in your life. It's you know, hard to find those people sometimes, but when you have them, you need to hold on to them.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:23:36

It is. And it's something that I often do. So my husband and I often do this for each other, but I preface everything when I talk to him. So I'll say, I really need you to not throw this back in my face, not that he would. He's, like, very kind and loving. But, like, sometimes when you're talking and you're disagreeing, he'd be like, remember you You know, like, we have these things. Right? So I prefaced everything, and I've gotten over the years really good at saying, I don't need you to solve my problem right now. I'm feeling insecure. Can you just tell me I'm right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:24:04

I love that. Oh my gosh. You can see that again. I don't need you to solve my problem right now. I just need you to tell I love that. I just need you to tell me that I'm right. This is what I need from I love that you do that. That's amazing. Just put it in mind.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:24:17

Yeah. Or I'll say, like, can I just vent? I just really need to get this. I know I'm over acting about this thing that happened at work. I just need to get it out. I need to validate my feelings. I need you to tell me that I'm not crazy for thinking what I'm thinking. And then you can tell me to calm down, but not right now. This is what I need first. Right? It's the self awareness and That's I think how you can ask your friends and your relationships to really be there for you to say, I know that you're gonna call me out on something. This is what I need from you emotionally. Everyone talks about making logical decisions. How do you make a logical decision before you process your emotion? You cant.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:24:54

Oh my gosh. Okay. Doctor Rishma, you are my new BFF. Okay. Everyone, this isn't on our website, but I totally, like, love it now. This is brilliant, and this is perfect because we also been looking on the Grit Show about how to actually fill your emotions because that's part of it. You can't pretend that you're not having this big reaction to something, and you need to process that big reaction. And I love this saying, like, I know this may come across as a overreaction, but you still need to listen to it. And I need to be validated right now. Like, I love it. I love it, Doctor Rishma. This is amazing. This is so valuable. I love it. And prefaceing that is really good because if you don't preface it, you might not be happy. with a response because, you know, partners don't always get that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:25:36

No. They don't.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:37

Yes. I usually just call one of my friends that will. But but now I can try my my partner out more from, like, you you're you might think this is another reaction, but I need to process this right now.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:25:46

Sometimes girlfriends are better. I'm not gonna lie, but my husband's been trained now. Now he'll be like, is this a nurturing moment or a problem solving moment?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:55

Oh my gosh. I love this. You might need to do couples courses, Doctor Rishma. Add this to your repertoire because this is brilliant. I love this. I love this. Okay. it is important to ask for what you need. And so I think that prefacing this, this is what I need right now. And to also help them understand that you're aware that this might come across this way, I think makes it more palatable. because I think sometimes, especially early in relationships or people that are early in relationships, they're like, oh my gosh. Is this going to be every single thing instead of realizing, no. This is how I process emotions, and I need to process my emotions. Otherwise, I will be somebody who, like, swings from one direction to the other because I haven't processed this. Like, you want me to process this. And that's the thing that I'm currently working with my partner, helping him understand that, like, we're in the middle of a big move at the moment. And the first time that the conversation came up about this move, I literally cried. To be completely honest, we're sitting at a restaurant, and I said, like, I can't do this. And I'm someone who has lived all across the country in multiple places, but this, like, just hit me as, oh my gosh, for this reason, this reason, this reason, I can't do this. And then I cried, and I was over it, and I was better because I experienced it, and I was on the other side. And that's how I work. whereas my partner was really excited for the move, and then the move happened. And he had to process some other things that he didn't expect it would happen with the move. Right? And so I just process differently than he does. And we're good at respecting that, but he's still having to learn that, oh, okay. If I cry once about something, he thinks I can be upset about 12 years, whereas that's not how I work. He might have had other people in his life if that's how they work, but that's not how I work. I process and I get to the other side of things. And I had to remember that he might think I'm still holding on to something that I'm not because I processed it, and I'm totally go over this move and excited for it and good to go. but different people process differently. And so it's important to recognize that. And I like that I just cry and get upset once, and I'm fine. So but you have to get upset once otherwise, I would be upset for 12 years instead.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:27:55

Yeah. For sure. And knowing that about yourself is so powerful. Right? Like, powerful with your communication, but also powerful with you under -- standing, your own life, your own changes, your own decisions. Like, this is something else that I think people don't talk about enough. Okay. I'm gonna give you an example. You may have heard of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Yes. So just for people who haven't, it's like this sort of triangle shape or on the bottom is, like, your basic needs, food, shelter, and then it kinda moves up and at the top is where self actualization. So how do we become, like, full people. And there's newer modern more modern versions of, you know, how we grow as people. But the idea is that for you need to have your basic needs met, and then you can grow into something else. So safety, security, all of those things. And all of these theories are wonderful and really, really helpful. But here is my issue that I think no one talks about and something that I'm trying to address in my work and my writing. No one talks about caregivers. No one talks about the person who gives up the top of their pyramid or whatever analogy that's more modern in the sailboat. Like, there's all these new analogies, no one talks about when we give up our growth, our self actualization to take care of someone else's basic needs. Whether that be our kids, our parents, our patients, our clients, whoever that is, specifically if you're a caregiver. If you're in a care giving profession or you're a mom or you're a teacher or even in health care, I found this. Someone else needs me what I think is more urgent for them than what I need for myself. and this creates all of this guilt and shame around self care, around taking time for myself, which shouldn't be there, but it creates that because we are caregivers. And no one talks about that. How do you grow while taking care of a baby who literally depends on your survival. That decision is not easy.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:29:55

Yes. I think it's very challenging. Actually, there's a book on burnout, and we're gonna eventually do an episode. It keeps getting rescheduled with a person I'm interviewing that we're talking about that. But it talks about human giver syndrome is what it calls it. And it talks about that element and how that contributes to burnout and how that's such a relevant piece because it does make the decisions so much harder. And when I worked in because my background, I have an LCSW and worked in human services and caring for others, and it does. It makes everything harder. And it was harder to go home at the end of the day because I'm like, I'm changing lives. I can't just walk away from this job. I'm a friend that works in hospice. I can't just, like, leave at the end this stuff is too important. And it felt like it'd be easier to work at a corporate job. We're so wet. People don't make money. But like, that piece adds so much to the decisions and to the weight of those things. that's very valuable.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:30:48

Yeah. It's hard even when you think about your kids, like, when I was thinking at least for fertility or when I talk to parents, like, you would lay down your life for this person. Right? You love this and you would lay down your life, but you don't wanna give yourself. There's a difference.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:01

And it's complicated because it feels like There is no end to what you need to give away a view to be able to do that, and then there's not anything left to care for yourself.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:31:10

Yeah. And each person is different. Each circumstance is different. Like so this is the piece where I feel like making decisions in those circumstances is really tough. And that's the piece that I wanna work on it a little bit to see how we can, you know, make those decisions while still figuring out what's right for us.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:31:27

Yes. Do you have any thoughts or wisdom around that for people that are listening? It's like, oh, you just opened up a big thing for me. Like, what are your thoughts around that?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:31:37

I do. I do. There's so much here. It's so deep. I mean, part of it is to understand some of the things that were holding onto and some of the things that we're willing to let go of. Because we hold onto in the same way that burnout is there's exhaustion with burnout, but there's also this, like, identity piece. Right? Like, you can get burnt out because you're at a toxic job. It might not be that you're exhausted. It's that your exhausted. Right? So in the same way when you're taking care of other people, if you always feel like your needs are not being met, you might have something that you're holding on to, but you also might be holding on to an identity. Well, I need to be there for this person all the time. You might be holding on to a fear. Well, if I'm not there, what will happen to that person. Maybe you have anxiety around, you know, how is my child gonna grow up? And, you know, there's all of these different nuances that They don't lend well to an easy answer, but I feel like if we can really face, what is it that you're holding on to? What is it that you need to let go of? And sometimes it's time, sometimes it's money, sometimes it's energy, and sometimes it's belief, sometimes it's societal expectations, Sometimes it is a pattern. Like, I know for me, I'll just give since I'm talking about kids, I'll just give my kid example. When my kids were little, they would have a hard time going to sleep. Right? And they would always be up all the time. And I was just exhausted trying to get them to go to sleep, spending hours, and hours and hours. And I felt like I was responsible for getting them to sleep. And then somehow they grew and things changed, and they started going to bed, and I would still get really worked up. It was almost like I had this preconditioned response when they would sleep where I would be like, I have to be home. And what if they get up? And If they stay up late, my life is gonna be brutal tomorrow. And I had all this patterning in my body and in my mind because of all the stuff that had happened when they were little. And one day, my daughter looks at me, I had said to her, you know, you can't stay up late. It's gonna be you know, you have to go to bed early, and she was like, mommy, I don't do that anymore. And I was like, wow. She's right. I was so focused on being there for her sleep routine. and, like, all the energy it would take for me to get her to go to sleep. And she had evolved. She had grown. She had you know what? I had to let go of that I don't know controlling piece, the traumatic piece, the emotional piece. Like, all these things I don't wanna admit about myself, but that that happened. Right? Because I was so -- ingrained in this pattern of how I was handling her stuff.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:34:09

Yes. It's those things that, like, it served a purpose at a time, and then we don't realize that you no longer need that. It no longer serves you. And so you can let go of it and move passive, but you don't realize, wait a minute. That's no longer serving me. That's no longer needed, but I've just been doing it for so long. I forgot that just check and see if it was even needed anymore.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:34:29

Yeah. And some of it is mindset, and some of it is legitimate. Right? Like, it takes an hour to drive my kids to school and pick them up. I can't change that. It's not like, I know everyone has 24 hours in a day. I can't do that 1 hour. Like, this whole everyone has the same amount of time in the day, bothers me because I'm like, some people have legitimate things that don't allow them to do you know, the same as what everybody else does. They might not have help. So there are some mindset things, and there are some legitimate constraints, what I call them. where your decisions can't be what you would like them to be. And so I talk about, you know, seeding the future. Like, if you want something but you can't do it now, how can we start seeding the future that you will be able to build later when your kids are a little grown, or how do we work with our constraints in a more creative Walji? Like, when I took time off of my business, I was like, okay. How am I gonna make money? Does it have to be that I have billable hours? Or can I be more creative and make money in a different way? while I am home with my kids. Like, there's all this creativity. Anyway, there's so much here to talk about, but I I feel like there is something that we need to acknowledge that there are real constraints on our decision, and we need to be creative in how we handle those.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:35:40

I love that. And you also you have a tool about how intentional folks are with their decisions for people to use. Is that on your website?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:35:47

Yeah. It's on my website. Essentially, it's a quiz. You'd take it, and it kind of tells you based on the answers, you have to try to be honest with your answers. It tells you if you are in sort of a mode where you're being really intentional with your decisions, or maybe you might be avoiding either taking action on something that you want or finding some awareness, like, because we avoid sometimes we all do it. It kind of plots you on this graph and helps you figure out how intentional am I in my decisions, and how can I become more intentional? That's the key.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:20

Oh, I love that. And your TEDx talk is great. So, folks, you wanna check out her TEDx talk and you wanna check out that on your website as Walji. And, also, every episode of the great show, we talk about self care. So what do you do for self care, Doctor Rishma?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:36:33

Oh my gosh. I don't have a morning routine. I'm gonna say that right now because I feel like mornings with kids are not always that smooth.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:42

Well, they're adaptable.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:36:44

They're adaptable. Yep. Things will change. The self care thing that I do the most is I really just try to listen to what I need. I try to be honest with my self and figure out what I need. Sometimes it means I need to go to bed early. Sometimes it means I need to dance around the kitchen because music makes me feel happy. Sometimes it it means I need a nice, you know, dinner with a friend because that fills my soul. Right? So I'm just trying to listen to what I need, and I try to as much as I can follow-up on that so that I can nourish myself while I'm nourishing everyone else.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:13

Oh, I love that. It's actually listening to yourself. Is everyone out there put that in your box of options is listening to yourself and dancing in the kitchen when you need it, which I love that option. That's a good one. And so as a thank you for being here today, we have 2 coloring books from The Grit Show, The Color of Grit. And one is vintage mermaid and magnificent ocean, and the other is You've got this, which is inspirational quotes. Which one can I send you a copy of?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:37:38

Oh, thank you. I'll take the inspirational quotes. That's really generous of you. Thank you. I'd love Oh my kids will love it. It's new.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:47

There you go. Everybody can have a little self care in that that works. That's awesome. And the other thing we always do each episode for our listeners is we give them what we call Grit Wit, which is something very actionable, they can take away and kind of apply. So what, from what we've talked about, say, do you think that they can take away and just apply to what they're doing right now?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:38:06

I guess I would say ask yourself questions. Like, is that true? You know? If you think something, ask yourself. Is that really true? Is that really what I want? Is that really what I need? Is that really what I should do? Is that true? Just ask yourself. Is that true?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:38:21

Wonderful. Around decisions or just about things in general in your life?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:38:28

It could be around beliefs. It could be around what you think capable of. It could be around what you think is happening in your life and how you interpret it and how someone's responding to you. You know, we have these interpretations of things that happen to us, and sometimes they're valid and legitimate, and sometimes we make them into something else. So just recognizing the way that I describe it to my kids is what is fake news in your mind and what is real news? You know, doesn't wanna play with you. Is that real news that they really don't wanna play with you, or is it that they're going through something in their own life? Is then in that case, it's fake news that they don't wanna play with you. just that they have something going on for them. So it could be when you're making decisions. It could be when you're interpreting a relationship connection or conversation. It could be when you're thinking about what you're capable of. Is that true?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:15

Nice. So you said, like, I can never go on that trip. Is that true? I can never get to bed early. Is that true? Like, yes.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:23

Exactly.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:25

I like it. Okay. So that is your grit wit today. So start questioning, is that true? Is that actually fake news. Do I need to validate that source a little bit? I love that. That is a great takeaway for today. I love that. So what is the best way for folks to connect to you, doctor Rishma?

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:39:40

My website is the best way. So it's livingxo.com, livingxo.com.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:46

Perfect. So that is the best way to find her and to learn more. And we'll give you the link in the show notes and also to that quiz you guys can find it and her TEDx talk. You have the link on your website as well for that.

Dr. Rishma Walji [: 00:39:56

Yes. I do. Yeah. Thank you so much. Oh, it's been so wonderful to chat with you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:01

Yes. This has been delightful. Thank you so much for being a guest. We got a lot out of this conversation today. Thank you, Doctor Rishma.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:06

Thank you for joining us today. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know I got a lot out of it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:12

Be sure to jump on over to Instagram and follow @the.grit.show. And if you aren't already following Authentic Connections Podcast Network @37by27, should definitely be doing that as well. We're launching the authentic connections podcast accelerator. It's an amazing opportunity for you to be part of a cohort launching your podcast together. It's a small group. It's very select. If you join this summer, accelerator, you will be part of the founding circle of authentic connections, which is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Get into the DMs @37by27 with the word amplify. I'll send you our work shop from dreaming to doing, and you can learn more about this amazing opportunity. Don't forget, you are the only one of you that this world has that. And that means something. I'll be here next Tuesday. I hope you are too.