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Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:00

Are you tired of a diet roller coaster? I think I was tired of it my freshman year of college, which that was some time ago. I can remember specific days where I was wondering if it was even worth it and quitting because I really decided it wasn't. I've never been a fan of diet culture. That's why when I ran across Jen Stevens, I was riveted. She gave me the opportunity to reframe everything, everything I thought I knew about eating and about health. So today on the Grit show, as part of our summer of encores, yes, you get two back to back. But don't get used to that. This is a special treat since the next episode falls near my birthday.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:00:43

And that's a new episode I have plans for. But today we get to revisit a conversation with New York Times best selling author and intermittent fasting expert Gin Stephens to uncover why traditional diets fail and how fasting foster flips the script, making it easy to stick to while also bringing incredible health benefits. That's what won me over. We dig into myths around snacking, the role that hormones play. Yeah, stuff with insulin and ghrelin, things I didn't know before I started reading her book and got to have this conversation with her. It's hugely important. And fasting isn't about starving. It's about giving your body space to thrive and what it needs.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:01:24

When this episode first aired over two years ago, I had read the book, was convinced on the science and just dipping my toes into whether or not it would be as easy as it could be. And it was. Because of intermittent fasting, I actually had to get a new dress for my wedding. Old one was far too large and the beta bodice was just too ridiculous to try to rework and try to make fit. It was over time that I lost weight and it was 18 pounds. Nothing significant like the 80 pounds that Gin lost. But I've kept it off and I was only doing it for the health benefits. That's why I'm not as stringent as other folks who are trying to lose the weight.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:04

I mean, I just had a double mastectomy, as you probably know, and a beloved part of my anatomy is removed. And even after the fluid retention from surgery eased off, I only lost three pounds. Doing something for your health and having pounds melt off over time, much better and much easier way to lose weight. So if you're ready to unlock sustained energy, food freedom and lifelong health benefits, you are in the right place. So stay here to learn how intermittent fasting may just be the key to your transformation. Welcome to the Grit Show where our focus is growth on purpose. I'm your host, Shawna Rodrigues, and I'm honored to be part of this community as we journey together with our grit intact to learn more about how to thrive and how to get the most out of life. It means a lot that you are here today.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:02:59

As you listen, I encourage you to think of who may appreciate the tidbits of knowledge we are sharing and to take a moment to pass this along to them. Everyone appreciates a friend that thinks of them and these conversations are meant to be shared and to spark even more connections. Gin Stephens is a powerhouse. What I love most is that her roots are as an educator and it shines through. Like all of us, she had a journey with weight loss and she discovered intermittent fasting. It was the right fit for her, but it didn't stop there. She had to educate others. So she wrote about it and in that process became a New York Times best selling author.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:03:42

From there she also started a podcast, more than one. And graciously she comes on podcast to continue sharing this information, which we are very grateful. So thank you for being here today, Gin. I would love for us to start with learning more about your podcast.

Gin Stephens [: 00:03:59

Intermittent Fasting Stories is a great podcast for people who want to hear from intermittent fasters who have made this their lifestyle and all the ups and downs, ins and outs. It's always a, you know, we have two episodes a week. It's always an inspirational story. The people I talk to are just amazing. And I love doing that Intermittent fasting podcast. I was on that for just over five years and so there is five years worth of old episodes people can listen to with me on it. But I have another podcast with a friend of mine, Sherry Bullock, it's called Life Lessons where we talk about all sorts of things, not intermittent fasting. So the other side of me gets to come out.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:04:34

Yeah, you are now addicted to podcasting just like I am.

Gin Stephens [: 00:04:37

Yeah, for a while I was doing three, three podcasts and like you gotta give. So now I'm down to two, but one of them comes out twice. So I still have three episodes a week that I'm recording. But I love it because, you know, I'm a retired teacher, I love people and this way I get to connect with people all the time.

Shawna Rodrigues[: 00:04:58

That is a perfect plan. I love that. And there are so many things. Again, there's so much to talk about with Gin and she has numerous books which we will talk more about at the end as well. So you can get to know her better and get to hear them and listening to her books. I listened to one of her books so you get to actually hear her talk about them. So that's a bonus.

Gin Stephens [: 00:05:15

Yeah, I will read them to you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:16

Yes. Did you read them to. Do you. And there's everything from the book because I got to read the. Or listen to her read fast paced repeat. And then I purchased it because it is so good and I wanted to definitely have it for reference. And she gives you all of the reference articles in the back, which is a good reason to buy it. So I have those reference articles.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:05:33

But we could talk about everything from mindset to food quality to the role of hormones and appetite correction, problems with calories, bio individuality, health plans. Like there's so many things we could talk about. But I really want us to kind of start with the whole point of the fact that really when you talk about intermittent fasting, it is more of a way of living. It's a health plan with a side effect of potentially losing weight. And the fact that this concept about how constantly eating. Because again, I'm one of the people like everyone else that I've stopped dieting for years now, but it definitely heard that I just need to snack and snack and keep my metabolism up. But there are some problems with that thinking and I would love for us to talk about starting with that because I feel like a lot of my listeners and people like that's what we've heard and if anything, that's not helping things. So let's talk about why that's not necessarily a good way to do things.

Gin Stephens [: 00:06:26

Well, it's funny, we've all heard that, you know, eating frequently boosts your metabolic rate. And it's not a lie, but it's misguided. Let me explain why. It's founded on the fact that when you eat, your body boosts your metabolic rate. But here's the thing. Your body boosts your metabolic rate, but not so much that it is greater than the amount of the food you just ate. Does that make sense? So the math doesn't work out. You know, you're eating to boost your metabolic rate, but you're putting in more fuel than your body burns because of that fuel you just put in.

Gin Stephens [: 00:06:55

You know, if you overeat, we know from the research, overfeeding, they call it in science, overfeeding boosts metabolic rate. But we also know that overfeeding makes you gain weight. So yeah, the end goal is not, you know, we want to boost our Metabolic rate. The goal is for anyone who has excess fat on their body is you want to tap into that fat and you want to use it instead of just storing more. So frequent eating leads us to store more. You know, and I just thought of an analogy. If you think about, you know, if you've ever had a newborn, been around a newborn, they eat around the clock. They are literally eating every two hours.

Gin Stephens [: 00:07:32

At least mine did. My newborns, they wanted to see their mama every two hours. But think about when you're a newborn, they're like, literally, that's the period of their time when they're growing the quickest.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:07:42

Yeah.

Gin Stephens [: 00:07:43

Eating frequently is growth promoting. And now that we are adults, we're not trying to grow anymore. So if we eat frequently, well, we will still keep growing. Unfortunately, we're not growing taller. We grow out. And so, you know, you have to know what your goals are. If you want to gain weight quickly, eat frequently. And if you want to lose weight, don't eat frequently.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:08:07

Yes. And that whole concept too. I know that one of the things that you talked about is the, the cleaning your house. And if you constantly have stuff coming skin which comes to the stuff around. Is it called autophagy? Is that how you say it?

Gin Stephens [: 00:08:19

Autophagy? You did it. You nailed it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:08:20

I nailed it. Let's talk about autophagy. Gin, I love it when you talk autophagy to me.

Gin Stephens [: 00:08:24

Autophagy literally means auto itself is like eating. So it's like self eating. Like your body is eating itself, which sounds really scary, but it's not. It's not eating the stuff you need because that would be really dumb. Like your body's not going to eat your heart muscle or your, you know, your needed muscles. Right. It's going to eat the old junkie stuff. So if you're not eating.

Gin Stephens [: 00:08:47

Your body has to look around, it has time to clean up. It's like, all right, well, I got these junky proteins over here that are need to be broken down like an old junky cell part. And so your body can work on that damaged stuff. Because it happens all throughout our cells. We have old junky parts that need to be recycled. And when we take a break from eating, autophagy is upregulated. And so we can deal with those that old junky parts. And as we get older, autophagy generally down regulates with age.

Gin Stephens [: 00:09:17

And so you, you see that? And as we get older, our bodies break down, it's harder to repair. Healing takes longer. But if we add intermittent fasting, we have more time during the day when we can have that cellular cleaning, that cellular housekeeping autophagy is upregulated. Helps us theoretically stay young longer. I know that my body heals quickly. I'm 53, and, you know, I credit that to my body having time every day to do the necessary repair. Needs to do.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:09:47

Yes. And you do not look 53 at all.

Gin Stephens [: 00:09:50

Thank you.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:09:51

Fabulous for 53. That's incredible. And so that concept, I think, that you mentioned somewhere else was about how, like, if you're having a house party all the time, you never have time to clean the house if people are coming in.

Gin Stephens [: 00:10:03

It's true. Well every time. That's like eating all the time. If you wake up first thing in the morning and eat breakfast like most people do, because we've been told, you know, immediately reading the map, like, as soon as the foot hits the floor, you need to be eating within 30 minutes. I mean, that's a lot of pressure right there. What, you're gonna die. But you start eating then. And then you have snacks, frequent snacks, and you keep going. Your body is constantly at that point just dealing with what you're putting into it. Also, it traps you in that blood sugar roller coaster where you're putting in something, and then your blood sugar goes up after you eat, and then it goes back down, and then your body's like, all right, that blood sugar went down.

Gin Stephens [: 00:10:40

Send some more fuel in. So you're constantly getting the signal to keep eating because you're hungry, because that fuel's coming and going, coming and going. And again, you never need to tap into your stored body fat for fuel.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:10:53

And we want to tap into that.

Gin Stephens [: 00:10:54

Yeah, you do.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:10:55

Yes, yes. And I do. I want to. There's so much for us to talk about.

Gin Stephens [: 00:10:59

Yeah. The audiobook is 14 hours.

Gin Stephens [: 00:11:01

So, you know, we're not going to get to all. Y' all need to get the audiobook. That's all there is to it. Or you need to get the book and start listening to the podcast.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:09

You need the audiobook first, and then you do need the paperback so you can go back to find the parts you need later. That's really how I intended the book to be. It's like a resource source guide.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:18

Yes. No, definitely. And that's why I was like, okay, now I'm getting it. Like, as soon as I finished the audiobook, I was like, now I'm getting this so that I can have it. So it was very, very valuable that way. So I love the concept, too, of talking about, like, the fact that diets don't Work. I think that I've been fortunate because I was on that roller coaster that a lot of people are on. And my mom was definitely, she was on.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:39

Every time I turned around growing up, she was on diets. And I think that I hated dieting because my mom was always on diets. But I got stuck on that same roller coaster until I finally heard the study that talked about how that the biggest indicator of weight gain is diets.

Gin Rodrigues [: 00:11:52

Correct. The biggest indication of future weight gain is past diet history. 100% true.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:11:58

Yes. And I think that's what finally said, forget this. I'm going to start like appreciating my body as it is and working on loving myself and where I'm at and bought my wedding dress for where I'm at. And this is good. Like that's what finally got me off of that. But there was, instead of be able to feel like there was a way that I could be healthy and be happy and with that, like, you know, change. So exercise. I do not lose weight with exercise. But that is actually a thing. And so, like,

Gin Stephens [: 00:12:20

I know it is a thing. My DNA had my DNA analyzed and it actually said, your DNA indicates you are not a person who is genetically likely to lose weight from exercise. That is the thing.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:33

Yeah, I heard, so she talks about her DNA in the book and I think we have the same, like when we talk about like all those things, it was like, oh, this is me. Like the carbs, the whole things. So we definitely. I connected with all of that. And so we're doing that. Like it's important for people to realize that diets don't work. And there's this whole piece about the Biggest Loser study that I hadn't heard of that study.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:12:51

Can you share more about that? I hadn't heard about that until you talked about it.

Gin Stephens [: 00:12:55

Diets work, but they don't work long term. Right. They're a very short term solution. And it has to do with, you know, metabolic adaptation. And you know how I talked before about if you overfeed, your metabolic rate goes up in response to that. Well, if you underfeed or over restrict, your metabolic rate goes down in response to that. And so that's the cycle you get in. You know, we can go back to the Biggest Loser study that they did and they, they followed these people who had been on the Biggest Loser show and they, you know, they successfully lost like, I mean, these people lost like massive amounts of weight because they were over restricting and they were doing all this working out.

Gin Stephens [: 00:13:34

And so they really were just putting their body through it and they would lose. Like they'd be disappointed if they only lost five pounds in a week or something. I mean, that is not a reasonable rate of weight loss. But we watched it every. I remember tuning in every week. Everybody wanted to be like those people and what they found when they went back and followed years later. The biggest losers who had successfully lost the most weight, and especially the ones who had been able to keep it off better than the others, had the slowest metabolisms of all. Their new metabolic rate was about.

Gin Stephens [: 00:14:08

I can't remember exactly. The number might be 500 calories a day lower than would be expected for their size. Based on, you know, we have, we can make formulas based on, here's how big you are, here's how many calories it should take to maintain that body size. Their resting metabolism rates were like 500 calories lower than they should have been. And it's because their body downregulated. And so all the ones who were fighting tooth and nail and managing to keep it off the best had the slowest metabolic rates of all. So they literally had to eat less. So if they had never gained the weight, lost the weight and had been at this weight, let's say they weighed, I'm just going to make up a number.

Gin Stephens [: 00:14:47

170. Let's say someone weighed 170. They'd never gone up or down. They just had always been 170. Someone who had been through the biggest loser process gained all the weight, lost all the weight. Now they're 170. They can eat 500 calories a day less than another 170 pound person who had never been through that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:15:03

That is so significant.

Gin Stephens [: 00:15:04

Yeah, it's very significant. And I'm just throwing those numbers out. Those are not the actual numbers. I just made those up. But I'm just for illustrative purposes. But the ones who had higher metabolic rates were the ones who were not good at keeping the weight off because they just ate more. So over restriction slows our metabolic rates and overfeeding speeds up our metabolic rates. So the solution then you,

Gin Stephens [: 00:15:28

I remember when that first came out, we were all like, well, it's hopeless then, because if you're gonna lose the weight, that's really how the news was all like, that's how they told the story back then. Well, you can lose the weight, but you're not gonna keep it off because you've ruined your metabolism. Why even try? And I remember that's really how a lot of us felt. But the Beauty is. Fasting is different.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:15:47

Yes. And that's a beautiful thing. And I think, but it helps this level of, of understanding because I remember friends who've lost weight and you see them eating carrots and you hear people saying like they must eat other things because eating carrots they should be losing more weight. No, they're not losing more weight eating just carrots because the fact that it takes. They can't even eat the carrots because,

Gin Stephens [: 00:16:07

Right, because their metabolic rate is adjusted.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:16:08

You have to each so much less that they had to eat so much less to maintain their weight than you to maintain your weight because of what that does. And so this understanding of others just like so much more deep than just the calories in calories out that people have tried to program into us for so long. There's so much more complicated than that and we can't make it simple.

Gin Stephens [: 00:16:26

Can I take a minute to explain why fasting is different? Because I think that's important.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:16:30

We need, this is what we spend time on. This is why this is so important.

Gin Stephens [: 00:16:33

Well, fasting is different even if you're eating the same exact amount. And you know, I'm a big fan of not counting calories and I have a whole section about that and fast fees repeat, which you heard. But let's say, for example, someone had the same amount of calories and they ate it spread throughout the day versus eating it in a shorter period of time. In an eating window, your body is going to be responding very, very differently depending on how those calories are coming in. If you're someone who's eating throughout the day, let's say you're following a 1200 calorie a day diet because that's what your doctor said to do. 1200 calories a day, that's the number I always tried to do back in my calorie counting diet days. And you're spreading out those little amounts of food all day long. Well, 1200 calories a day is not very much.

Gin Stephens [: 00:17:16

It's not gonna fuel your body well. And so the goal is you're gonna make up the rest of that from your fat stores. Right? That's the goal of diets. Except now you're eating just a little bit for breakfast and a little bitty snack and maybe a little 100 calorie snack pack and a little tiny diet lunch. And it's not enough fuel for your body. But because you're eating frequently, your insulin is high. We can talk more about that in a few minutes and why that's important. You're keeping your insulin high because food is coming in and your body is not really tapping into your fat stores very well.

Gin Stephens [: 00:17:49

You are not well fueled during the day. You're not putting enough fuel in, and your body is not able to tap into your fat stores very well because you're eating so frequently and you are not well fueled. You start to feel hangry. It gets harder and harder as time goes on. And then eventually you start having the urge to binge, which we've all done on those low calorie diets. And then you like quit. And now your metabolism, if you stayed on it for a long time, is, is slower than it was when you started, so you gained the weight faster than you lost it, and now you're heavier than you were before. But fasting is different because after your body adapts to fasting and the clean fast, which we can talk about in a few minutes, after you're adapted, now you're fasting, you're not bringing in the food, you're fasting clean, your insulin levels go down.

Gin Stephens [: 00:18:36

Insulin is a storage hormone. And when insulin goes down, your body is able to get to your fat stores efficiently. So now during your fast, all of a sudden your body can get to your fat stores. And so you're fueling yourself from your fat stores so you feel really good. And then let's say you have, I don't know, a five hour eating window. Whatever you end up with, let's say you're going to eat those same 1200 calories, then, I mean, that's still not enough fuel for a whole day's worth of work. Right. 1200 calories is not enough to fuel an adult body.

Gin Stephens [: 00:19:11

But your body was also fueled by the fat calories that you accessed from your own body. So your body is well fueled as opposed to when you spread those 1200 calories out over the whole day. And your body was not well fueled. The difference is you're fueling yourself from within, from the fat you already have.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:31

And that makes a big difference.

Gin Stephens [: 00:19:32

And then your body process that. Yeah, it doesn't need to downregulate because your body's like, there's plenty of fuel here and no problem.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:19:39

And that's also when it comes into the whole concept of the clean. Yeah, Fast becomes so important when you're doing this. And that's something that I never even thought about. About what this insulin, the play of insulin and why fasting clean. And we're talking about the, not the eating part, this is all about the fasting part. Can you talk more about why it's important to do that and the whole role of insulin and why it's important to do it so that it can actually access your fat stores and make this big impact?

Gin Stephens [: 00:20:08

You know, probably most of your listeners, like me, we just think of insulin as, like, oh, you know, my Dad's a type 2 diabetic. He has to inject insulin. Right. We just think of insulin as something with diabetes. Or if you have type 1 diabetes, your body doesn't make insulin. You have to inject it to keep your blood sugar down. What we don't understand is that insulin is, like I said a minute ago, a storage hormone. It's also the big, fancy science word is anti lipolytic.

Gin Stephens[: 00:20:33

And anti means, again, lipo is fat lipolytic burning. So it's anti fat burning. If you have high levels of insulin circulating throughout your body, your body is not able to get to your fat stores very well, and they're just, like, basically locked away. And that's when you start to get hangry because you've got all this fat on your body, but your body can't get to it because your insulin levels are so high. That's not the natural state of how our bodies work. If we are in starvation, like in the past, like a famine, there's no food. Food people can't eat because there's nothing literally to eat. Like, I'm talking about hundreds of years ago, Our bodies have to be able to tap into our fat stores so we don't die.

Gin Stephens [: 00:21:15

But in our modern world, with diet sodas and all the things that we have, they might be zero calories, but they cause our bodies to release insulin in response to the sweet taste. We're keeping our insulin high, high, high. Plus all the snacking that we're doing. And so we can't get to our fat stores because our insulin's high. I know everyone's heard of insulin resistance, and, you know, all the metabolic problems that people are having now, but the root of them is chronic high levels of insulin based on the signals that we're sending with something always coming in. So one thing we really want to do, as I've said, is keep our insulin low so we can tap into our fat stores for fuel. And we do that by not introducing any flavors into our mouth that make our brains think that food is coming.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:01

In, which is such a wild concept because, again, like, when we think of fasting like that, like, blew my mind. Like, the first time I heard you speak was, wait a minute. What?

Gin Stephens [: 00:22:10

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:22:10

Like, we would drink, we just don't eat. But it's about flavors, which is like, what makes it the clean fast, which is a whole different concept.

Gin Stephens [: 00:22:17

Right. We have something called the cephalic phase insulin response, and that's in our brain. And whenever we taste something, it sends messages to our brain that something's coming in. And so if you taste something sweet, your brain says, I know what that is. That is some sort of sugar. It's glucose. It's something it might be. You know, think about how we developed as humans.

Gin Stephens [: 00:22:38

It was honey or fruit or whatever. And we taste that, we know it's coming in. And you're going to need insulin to manage that hit of sugar or honey or whatever it is. So your body goes ahead and pumps out some insulin in response to what it knows is coming in. But now imagine that you're actually just drinking a Diet Coke. Your brain doesn't know that that's zero calories. Your brain just tastes the sweetness. And they actually did some fascinating studies with rats where they severed the nerve that sent signals to the brain so the rat could no longer taste the sweetness. No more insulin response. It's the taste that matters.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:16

Yes.

Gin Stephens [: 00:23:16

So we don't want to taste anything that's sweet. All those water enhancers, everything, you know, the flavored this and flavored that. If your body thinks a sweet treat is coming in, it is keeping your insulin high. And, you know, I think about that when I go to Costco now and I'm in the beverage department. I mean, there is part of the obesity epidemic right there. And even though it has zero calories, it is not doing our bodies any favors metabolically because it's keeping our insulin levels constantly escalated, which is definitely not what we want.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:23:48

Yes. And that's such this new way of thinking. And so if you are going to drink beverages while you're on a clean fast, which is important for this to actually work and for things to actually access your fat stores, that you actually need to be having things that have a bitter taste. And so it needs to be a tea that's a black tea or green tea or coffee

Gin Stephens [: 00:24:06

Plain tea or coffee.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:24:09

Yes. With nothing else in it, which is just such a different way of thinking. I'm like, wait a minute, what about my lemon sparkling water? Just a little bit of my water. What, can't I have something?

Gin Stephens [: 00:24:17

I mean, I actually felt that recently, it was a couple months ago, it was time to open my window. It was while we were moving and I was at a restaurant and I ordered my dinner And I hadn't had anything to eat yet. And I'm like, I'll just have water with lime. I'll drink that. And so the server brought my water with lime and I started drinking that, but I hadn't had anything to eat yet. And so I actually felt my blood sugar crash and I was suddenly starving. Like, I was like, I've got to eat right this minute or I'm going to die. And,

Gin Stephens [: 00:24:51

And I. And now that I know what happens, obviously my body said, oh, here comes, you know, the citrusy deliciousness, pumped out some insulin, lowered my blood sugar, crashed it. I actually felt it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:02

Yes. And that's part. So part of what that is, is to make it easier to fast, if that makes sense too, for folks that like the fact that you're having the lemon with your water, that you're having the diet drinks that you're having, all of these other things actually makes it harder to fast. It does, because it makes you hungry and it makes you want the food because your body's like, oh, no, there's supposed to be calories with that. Give me the calories that go with that.

Gin Stephens [: 00:25:25

Yeah. And now your blood sugar could crash and you're suddenly starving and it's just keeping you from getting into your fat stores. And if you're fasting, you want to get the benefits of the fast, otherwise it's going to be like the effect of a low calorie diet. Right. If you're not fasting clean, you're not able to tap into your fat stores effectively and that your metabolism is going to pay the price of that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:25:46

Yes. And so there's two things that I want us to like, touch on next. One, I want to talk a little bit about why I love listening to you talk about all of this and kind of your background that connects to all of this. And the other thing is to kind of define why intermittent fasting if folks aren't familiar with it. Because I don't think a lot of my listeners are that it's not scary fasting because again, like, like five, 10 years ago, I had friends that didn't eat for a week. And that was just crazy. They had cayenne pepper and lemon. And it was like, I'm never doing that.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:26:14

It's crazy. Don't do that, don't do that. But intermittent fasting, like when you learn about these numbers, but these numbers actually they can be like 12 hours of not eating. So sometimes just not snacking at night and eating first thing in the morning, like, you know, I mean it can be really just getting healthier and letting your body clean out a little bit. So let's talk about those numbers and let's talk about the back your background just a touch. So talk about the numbers a little bit and what intermittent fasting means. And we probably don't have time to get into like the deeper stuff in the book that talks about day, you know, deep.

Gin Stephens [: 00:26:41

Right. There's a lot of different ways to do it. So you really just do that. We have something in our community called tweak it till it's easy. And there's a chapter called that in the book. And there's so many ways you can structure your intermittent fasting lifestyle. And the way that you start on day one is not the way that you're going to be doing it on day 50 or day 500 or whatever. So basically most people who do intermittent fasting have what we call a daily eating window.

Gin Stephens [: 00:27:05

And you know, you don't start off with what you're going to end up with because you have to build up to it. It's kind of like couch to 5K. You don't just get off the couch and run a 5K. You have to build up for it. And that's the same thing with fasting. You have to build up your fasting muscle. You might start off with, for example, 16, 8. That would mean for 16 hours a day you're not eating and you eat all of your food in an eight hour period.

Gin Stephens [: 00:27:27

And that's just as simple as skipping breakfast and starting at lunch. That's not scary. So many people tell me that's how they naturally would have been or used to be before society told them they had to eat breakfast. So they're like, are you telling me I do not have to force myself to eat first thing in the morning Hallelujah. And then from day one, that's easy for them to do because that's how their bodies naturally wanted to be. So I end up most days my eating window is probably an average of around five hours at this point. Sometimes it might be six or eight, sometimes it might be three.

Gin Stephens [: 00:28:00

It just depends on my schedule for the day. But I think most of the time it's probably around five hours a day. And it sounds really like harsh and restrictive and scary. And there's a saying that I love. I'm not sure who invented this saying or who said it at first, but diets that we're so used to, diets are easy in contemplation but hard in execution. Meaning Every diet we ever started, we're so excited. It sounds like we're going to be able to do it, but then when we actually try to do it, it's really hard. Easy in contemplation, hard and execution.

Gin Stephens [: 00:28:30

Fasting is the complete opposite. It is hard in contemplation, but easy and execution. Like, it sounds like you're going to be restricting yourself for 16 hours a day. You're not eating. Oh, my Lord, I'm going to be hangry. I'm going to just waste away to nothing. It's going to be awful. But in reality, you start to feel so much better after your body adapts to the, the clean fast and you're fat adapted.

Gin Stephens [: 00:28:55

You're running on your stored fat for fuel. You have great energy. And then in your daily eating window, you get to eat the food that makes you feel your best. You know, my book is Fast Feast, Repeat. We're feasting. We're, we're enjoying our eating window and we're nourishing our bodies well and we feel amazing. And it's not restrictive at all. And that's the thing that we hear over and over from people.

Gin Stephens [: 00:29:19

There was somebody in my community today, I think she's on day 100, and she was reflecting on day 100 and she talked about how much food freedom she's feeling and how she thinks of the fast. I think she used the words of sacred time, you know, for her body to do what it needs to do. And then she nourishes her body well during the feast. And, and she's in the stage where she is trying to heal her relationship with food. And so many of us need to go through that phase where, you know, you've been like, guilty because you ate a bite of a donut or something. And then you get to the point where fasting heals your relationship with food so that you're able to look at that donut and eat it without any guilt. And then eventually maybe you look at that donut and you're like, I don't even like donuts. And so now it empowers you to connect with your body and realize, what do you really want to eat? Maybe it's a Brussels sprout, not an donut.

Gin Stephens [: 00:30:08

And the first time that you realize you would rather have Brussels sprouts than donuts, you're like, who am I? But fasting really allows us to connect with ourselves and lose that diet brain, we call it, that we've built up for all these decades.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:24

Yes. And we just had an Episode here on the Grit show of somebody talking about intuitive eating. And I feel like these two things actually go so well together. And I have people, I need to apologize for that, didn't want to eat breakfast. And I'm like, you need to eat breakfast. It is okay to not eat breakfast. It is okay to not miss meals. But our society has said, like, no small snacks.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:30:43

Put food in somebody's mouth and they're hangry. Like, instead of us finding our ways to intuitively find what our body needs and that fasting isn't a bad thing, we need to find a way to do it right. So our bodies,

Gin Stephens [: 00:30:55

That's the whole weak it, till it's easy. Your body, what your body needs. If you're over restricting your body will tell you, you, that's the thing promoting, you know, starving yourself. Yeah, you might just think that's what it sounds like until you actually live it and you're like, oh, this is less like starving myself than anything I did before. And just to speak to intuitive eating, I tried so hard before I did intermittent fasting. I tried so hard. I read all the intuitive eating books.

Gin Stephens [: 00:31:20

And you know, you're supposed to ask yourself, am I hungry? Unfortunately, the answer was always yes. And I got up to 210 pounds following the principles of intuitive eating. Yeah, that is what got me to £210 because I was so disconnected from my hunger and satiety signals. And I did that for years and never reconnected. But intermittent fasting has reconnected me with my hunger and satiety signals. I'll talk about that in the Appetite Correction chapter of Fast Feast, Repeat and the Science of why that Happens. But I am now what I would call myself to be an intuitive eater within my structure of my daily eating window. And I don't like, make myself wait, but I'm struggling.

Gin Stephens [: 00:32:00

No, this is the time of the day when I feel best. When I eat later in the day, that is how I feel the best. I really wish the intuitive eating community would understand how intermittent fasting can work together with them.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:32:11

They can go together. They're not quite there yet. I think that, you know, it seems like they're opposite, but they're not.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:32:18

That they can join together and that's what I want. That we're definitely a toolbox our this podcast and these are tools for you to have in your toe box. So I want them to see.

Gin Stephens [: 00:32:28

I am an intuitive eater now within the paradigm of my eating window. Because if I got up in the morning and started eating at 7am or something, I would feel terrible. And my body intuitively now knows not to do that, right?

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:32:41

Yes, exactly. So I love you are not a doctor and we don't say that you're a doctor and these are like medical recommendations, anything like that. But I love your perspective because you are to me very academically focused. You have a background in teaching children and now you're an adult educator and you've taken courses and health coaching type stuff. But your perspective is great because you look at all of the science and do a great job and you listen to her book or read her book about giving it to you in a way that we can make our decisions. She offers us the studies in a way that's very relatable and very easy to connect to. And you need to make the decisions for yourself what you're going to do. But you do a great way of presenting information so that people can consume that information and understand you can get the opposite somewhere else if you look.

Gin Stephens [: 00:33:21

Oh definitely, you can't have anything.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:33:24

Yes. But I love that your background that you have this way that you connect to people and you, it's your life too. You've lived this, you looked for this and you found this and that's what you're sharing, this great thing that's worked well for you and found that it's worked well for millions probably at this point of other people as well.

Gin Stephens [: 00:33:39

Yeah, a lot of people. But you know, I'm a teacher that's, I'm trained to redeliver content to people and that is my gift. And so it's just a different kind of content. And you know, it's very much started with me just telling my story in my very first self published book Delay Don't Deny it was after I lost 80 pounds and, and by the time I wrote that book I had kept it off. It was over a year at that point. But now it's been, I mean this is my ninth holiday season that I'm going through as an intermittent faster and I have maintained my weight since I lost it. So from 2014 until today, I've never had had a period of time where clothes no longer fit me because I've gained weight back. Right.

Gin Stephens [: 00:34:18

You know, I've had seasons where my honesty pants got a little tight that I needed to tighten up my eating window. But it's no big deal. Intermittent fasting has given me the tools to know that I can keep my weight at a healthy range for the rest of my life. And I know also that I'm going to age well and that is my goal. You know, I'm 53 now. I want to be 73 and still, you know, able to swim in the ocean and walk on the beach and climb up three flights of stairs and do what I want to do. And hopefully I'll be getting down on the floor with some grandchildren at one point and, you know, and living a life as someone who is strong and healthy. And I know, you know, just based on like my waist measurement.

Gin Stephens [: 00:34:55

I know my waist measurement, our waist to height ratio or waist to hip ratio, they're very good indicators of our metabolic health. And you know, my waist size is very healthy. And I know that that is an indication that things are really good on the inside as well. And that really inspires me moving forward, being inspired by how I want to be in 20 years, 30 years, 40 years.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:35:16

Yes. And I think that's the thing with intermittent fasting is the health benefits we've talked about like so the diet. There's more in her book too about the around diabetes and,

Gin Stephens [: 00:35:26

Oh, did you see the study that came. They was in the news yesterday. They did a study and they. It was in a medical journal. I haven't read the study yet. I just had seen several articles. People were talking about it reversed type 2 diabetes.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:35:39

Really?

Gin Stephens [: 00:35:40

Yeah, it was like a study that actually showed it. So that's really exciting. Intermittent fasting reversed type 2 diabetes in the participants in the study, which is so exciting. Which it makes total sense now you understand why. Because they're fasting and their insulin goes down and now their body is no longer having to overproduce insulin. And so it makes sense when you look at the mechanism of action.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:01

Yes.

Gin Stephens [: 00:36:02

And just what you would predict.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:36:03

Yeah, it's exactly what you predict from what you've already shared in your book. And just the fact that talking about what with the patients that did intermittent fasting without having to have surgery to take away excess skin because of the way that the autophagy works, there's so many health benefits that we can't even have time to get into them all. Like you guys, you need to see the book. It's very, very exciting and very interesting all the information based on this. But I know that we are getting short on time. So I want us to get to our, our self care piece. We do each episode we have our guests share with our audience what they do for self care because that's a big focus on here on the great show. So what do you do for Self care, Gin.

Gin Stephens [: 00:36:41

Well, I am a very early morning riser, so I like to get up and I'm the only person up in the house. And I make myself some coffee, black coffee. And I love to go sit. We live at the ocean now, so I love to, when it's not too cold, even if it is a little cold, I like to go sit on my, my back porch, which overlooks the ocean, bundled up, watching the sunrise with my black coffee in the morning. And, you know, you hear the sound of the ocean and my cat comes and gets in my lap and we're out there and watching that sunrise and that time is just very precious to me.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:15

Oh, I love that. That's beautiful. And we also, for each of our guests, thank you for being here. We actually have a series of coloring books on the grit show. We have one that's the vintage mermaid and magnificent ocean and one that you've got this, which is quotes. So you get to choose which one you want and we send you a copy of a coloring book. Which one would you like?

Gin Stephens [: 00:37:33

Like I have to pick the ocean.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:34

Well, you know, after what you said, I kind of was thinking you might. So. Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:37:38

So we will get your address and we will send you a copy of that as a thank you for being here today. And we also always have something we send for our listeners, something that they can kind of apply and take away with them. And I wonder if this thinking around, you know, what insulin is doing for our bodies and the sugary drinks and that type of thing, if that's something to kind of take away or what your thoughts are, something they can take away, can start applying today. That comes from what you've read in the studies that they can be helpful for them.

Gin Stephens [: 00:38:04

Honestly, we don't have a study like this, but I think we should. But based on what we know, I think that if every person, man, woman and child in the world instead just switched their beverages, that's all they changed. If all people drank in the world were plain water or plain sparkling water, black coffee, plain tea, if that's all we drank, I think we would see an amazing difference in the health of the world. Yes, I really think the rise of the obesity epidemic, I mean, there's so many things that you could link it to. But like I can remember before we had Starbucks when people were not always carrying around a latte. I call that a hot milkshake. And people are like constantly. When I was a teacher, I remember seeing people in the hall of that school from all day long, long carrying around their hot milkshake, sipping on it all the time.

Gin Stephens [: 00:38:57

So we are basically keeping ourselves in that constant state of something sweet coming in our mouths all the time. And when we're not drinking something, we're chewing gum or we're popping breath mints. And so if we just let our bodies rest from constant flavor coming in, I think it would be astonishing what we would see. And, you know, the diet sodas aren't doing you any favors. It's not just the calories that are the problem. If artificial sweeteners are maybe causing even more confusion, because no calories actually come in, and now your body is even more dysregulated.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:27

Yeah. And I think not realizing that part of our. That hangry roller coaster that we're on and being hungry all the time and wanting stuff that that's actually part of that cycle. I never would have thought of that, because I do always. I reach for drinks. I'm not reaching for food as a substitute, but I'm not doing that food. And I feel like it's adding to my roller coaster.

Gin Stephens [: 00:39:46

Yeah.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:47

And the diet drinks, because a lot of friends, I don't drink diet drinks. They don't like the aspartame, but I drink sodas instead. Or I'm drinking the sparkling waters, or I'm drinking the other things. Always looking for something to drink.

Gin Stephens [: 00:39:57

With a flavor

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:39:58

Yes. A flavor.

Gin Stephens [: 00:39:58

But you see what I've got? I've got my topo chica with no flavor. It's just sparkling water, and it's very refreshing. And in the glass bottle, it's so bubbly.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:06

So bubbly. I love it. Yeah, we're looking. We grabbed club soda the other day. When we were at. It was funny. We're like. Which was a tonic water. Club soda.

Gin Stephens[: 00:40:15

Don't drink tonic water.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:16

Don't add a tonic water. Well, even the gum and because again, the dentist telling you how the gum and the mints and all those things that you don't think that you're doing, and it's actually hard to start thinking about not doing that.

Gin Stephens [: 00:40:26

I know.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:27

So we've just start. Because again, we just listen to the book. We're just starting to, like, change our thinking around these things. And it's a lot to change your thinking around that.

Gin Stephens [: 00:40:35

It is.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:35

Start looking at how much you're doing that and noticing how much you're adding in. And it's a lot.

Gin Stephens [: 00:40:40

It really is a lot.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:40:42

You're actually turning on insulin every time you're putting those things in your mouth.

Gin Stephens [: 00:40:48

The black coffee. I'm just gonna Say for everybody listening who's like, well, I could do it. If I can't drink coffee black, can I just put a little cream in there? No, you cannot. And I don't care how many YouTube videos you find that tell you can.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:41:01

Yes. Creative that they can get like. So we got some sweetener at like some store that was like the MCT Oil. I didn't know what the point of that was until I read your book. Was talking about the MCT Oil as.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:41:12

Being another like keto friendly. Like just everyone wants to sneak in. That's how they make the money. Which guess what, that's one of the other bonuses is there's no money to be made. It's free.

Gin Stephens [: 00:41:22

When you put all this oil stuff in your coffee again, it's. Do you want your body to burn oil that you put in your coffee cup or do you want it to burn the fat on your body? I mean, it's really a no brainer. And cream in your coffee might be delicious, but cream is nature's perfect food for building a baby cow. All dairy. All mammals feed their babies dairy, but it's definitely not fasting.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:41:47

Yes, it's not. It's not. You can have it during your window. And that's. Have this in my window. And then finding the teas are complicated because I was gonna be like, can't I have Until I. The first time I heard you speak, I wanted to ask you, like, so what about my peppermint tea? But then I heard the book.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:42:02

I can't have my peppermint tea.

Gin Stephens [: 00:42:04

That in your eating window. If you love it.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:42:06

Yes.

Gin Stephens [: 00:42:06

Our favorite like I talk about in the book is EEMTEA

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:42:08

Yes.

Gin Stephens [: 00:42:09

E E M T E A. That sounds crazy, but just a mug of plain hot water might sound like a mug of sadness, but it's really like a hug and a mug. You just want that ritual of having something hot and soothing. And hot water in a mug is very soothing.

Shawna Rodrigues[: 00:42:24

Yes. And at restaurants is actually what I prefer. I already did that. Sometimes I just want something warm to hold. So we get that at restaurants and I feel more confident, say, give me a warm cup of. Otherwise I'm stealing my fiance's cup of coffee size. And they warm hold. So.

Gin Stephens [: 00:42:38

Yeah.

Jen Stevens [: 00:42:39

Yes. So we're almost out of time. Tell people where to find you. Where's the best place to find you? Because we have podcasts, we have books, we have. What's the best place to find you, Gin?

Gin Stephens [: 00:42:47

Well, if you go to ginstephens.com everything is linked from there. Gin is G I N Stephens is with a ph ginstephens.com I have an intermittent fasting community that you can get to from my website where I love to interact with intermittent fasters from all over the world. I used to be on Facebook, but I left Facebook because it's got a little toxic. You know how that can be. So our community is a paid community, but it's like 9.99 a month, so it's not any big deal. But you get to interact with me if you're on the community. I have my podcasts anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Gin Stephens [: 00:43:18

Intermittent fasting stories is what I would start with. And you could just start with literally any episode. They're all going to inspire you. And then the Life Lessons podcast if you just want to hear cool stuff

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:43:29

That is amazing. We will definitely have all that in the show notes. You guys can be sure to be able to find her. Thank you so much for taking time everyone. You need to learn more. This is amazing. I'm very excited about it.

Gin Stephens [: 00:43:38

It's life-changing.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:43:39

Yes. Thank you so much for being here today, Gin. We appreciate you.

Gin Stephens [: 00:43:42

You're so welcome.

Shawna Rodrigues [: 00:43:46

I value the time we shared together today. Thank you for making time to be here and to continue taking steps towards growth and bringing more ease into your life. I'd love for us to stay connected on Instagram at Shawna Podcast or at The Grit Show. There's even a link in bio at The Grit show where you can send me an email to let me know what you thought of today's episode. Hearing from you helps to make the effort that goes into producing these episodes worthwhile. After all, you're why I'm here. And since it's been a while since you've heard this, you are the only one of you that this world has gotten lot and that really does mean something. I hope you realize that I'll be back again soon and I hope you're following along or subscribed so that you'll know and be here too.